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Episode 11 – Spanking

Released May 1, 2011

Hosts: Spacey, Mako

Guests: Missy, Mae

Transcribed by Staub. Uncertainty in transcription is indicated with [?]

Missy: You’re listening to the Big Little Podcast, a show by, about and for age players of all kinds. We expect our audience to be mature, consenting adults because sometimes the topics on our show are pretty adult too, just like you. If you are under 18 and looking for upfront advice about sex, please visit

[intro music~! ♪♫♪]

Spacey: Welcome to the Big Little Podcast, a show by about and for age players of all kinds. I’m Spacey and I'm here with my brother-

Mako: Mako, that's me! And we've got some some other guests today too.

Spacey: Yaay, other guests! Shall we get the drumroll going? 'Cause you were tapping on your lap earlier.

Mako: Sure.

Spacey: [Drumroll sounds]

Mako: So, uh, Mae is here in Atlanta.

Mae: Yaaaay, it's me!

Spacey: I agree, yay, Mae – I'm very happy and pleased with Mae. And who do we have in DC? I think we have the ever famous, the ever wonderful... Missy!

Missy: Hi. [laughs]

Mako: It's my Mommy.

Mae: Yay, Mommies!

Spacey: We like Mommies. Did you know one of the most popular terms to find the show now is 'Dominant Mommy'?

Mako: That makes me happy.

Spacey: And of course the one search term that makes you smack your head.

Mako: Urgh, please don't say it, please don't say it!

Spacey: You're thinking it though, so you might as well.

Mako: [sighs] 'Dominate Mommy'.

Missy: Oh, well, I guess that would be Daddy, if he's dominating Mommy. It could be a verb.

Spacey: It could also be Baby. Baby can dominate Mommy in the right circumstances. Not my circumstances.

Mako: I'm fine if it's a verb, not an adjective.

Spacey: Well it doesn't specify it as the results search term

Mako: That's true. But that's not what we're here to talk about today. What we're here to talk about today is something near and dear to my heart – and other parts of my body – spanking!

Spacey: I guess therefore other parts of my body. Yay!

Mako: I've spanked you before! And one of the reasons we particularly asked my Mommy to come on is because of how we met, through a local spanking group called DCS. Picture it -

Spacey: Do we need some smoke effects or something?

Mako: Right - no. Picture it. I'm at a spanking party, okay? Now... It's kind of new territory for me. I'm an age player and I like spanking but I'm not really a spanko person. But this group I'm going to, DCS, which is wonderful, is a spanking group – but a very open and very friendly group. And I’m at this particular play party at this particular member's house in their basement and... Just sort of watching the action. And there's this guy getting spanked in the main play area. This guy, Bill, who was an amazing human being and - unfortunately he's no longer with us - and a really really, deep, deep bottom. A huge- he refered to himself as a pain pig, okay and he really was. And he's getting this absolute of terror[?] a spanking, just thing after thing after thing from this other guy. And at one point this other guy, this top that's spanking him, wants some help. So he calls for some help and who comes into the room but this little girl!

Missy: That would be me!

Mako: Right, and she's dressed in this schoolgirl outfit and she looks sweet and lovely and gentle – and then she grabs something off of this rack of toys and just beat the snot out of him!

Spacey: Mean schoolgirls

Missy: It wasn't quite that bad.

Mako: Oh my God, it was so hard and it made my brain kind of flip upside down and kick its little brain feet in the air because I couldn't process the idea that there was this girly little girl that was also this powerful spanking top! And the truth is, right at that moment, I actually fell completely in love with her.

Missy: Aww.

Spacey: Hooray!

Mae: Yay, love!

Mako: And it's kinda how we met.

Spacey: So wait, Bill got the spanking and you got the aftercare.

Mako: It's true! [laughs] It was amazing because actually, the thing that really is kind of amazing about the whole thing is that at the time I was really, really interested in her – and I didn't even think she knew that I was alive-

Missy: I did.

Mako: But months went by... Longer. And one day, it was actually my birthday, plans I had had sort of fell through, and I saw her online and I messaged her and I said, Missy, 'there's this thing I've always wanted to do to, for, and about about you.' And she said, 'what's that'? And I said, 'ask you on a date?'

Mae: Aw!

Mako: And she said yes.

Missy: No, actually what I said was 'really?!' [laughter]

Spacey: 'Really? You perv!'

Mako: Cause it turned out that actually she felt the same way about me the whole time.

Mako: I did.

Mako: It was wonderful. And so we... got started.

Missy: Which was kind of awkward because we already knew each other and we knew what each other looked like and we'd been around each other a lot, but that very first official date... We were both nervous, just like we were meeting each other for the first time – and at one point I said to him, 'why are we so nervous?! We already know each other!'

Mako: [laughs] It's true, my hands were sweaty... It's funny, and I remember- I dressed up in this very particular outfit I have, that has this leather vest, y'know? And I looked kind of like, toppy?

Missy: He was very toppy-looking.

Spacey: And you had that collared shirt on underneath...

Mako: [laughs] Exactly!

Missy: But I have to admit, it really... It did something to me.

Mako: Good thing that it did.

Spacey: It wasn't false advertising, then?

Mako: I am toppy sometimes! We do spank one another.

Missy: Not enough.

Mako: It's true – which is something that we're working on. I'm way more of a service top. Which is kind of funny because we have this sort of arrangement that's part of our lives and I'm able to spank her no problem. But because Missy Mommies me so much, I have to sort of re-jigger my brain a little bit to go the other way. But I certainly want to.

Spacey: The good news is there's plenty of time when we're done recording the podcast – go have fun. [laughter]

Mako: So, I have questions, if it's okay if I lead off.

Spacey: Lead off! Well you are married to her, so I think you get first dibs.

Mako: Okay! I know this stuff, but I know people are gonna wanna hear how you first got into spanking and realised it was a thing for you?

Missy: Mm. You want me to go all the way back?

Spacey: All the way!

Mako: Way back.

Missy: Okay. I think I was first interested in it when I was probably about 9 or 10 years old. I remember distinctly going in the school library all the time to look for books, cause I loved to read. And once you're a spanko – and I think other spankos can attest to this – any time you pick up a piece of literature, your eyes zero in on that magic word, 'spanking'. And I could look through any book and find it, and I read a lot of good books that way. And by the time I finished high school, I could tell you just about every book that had any little bit of spanking in it.

Spacey: Including the dictionary?

Missy: Yes. [laughter] So that all started when I was about 9 or 10 and I remember when I was 11 or 12, I started learning how to brat a little bit and I would brat with our neighbour that lived up the road and he was a teenager and I used to brat with him and he would try and grab me and put me over his knee.

Spacey: Oh, no, no...

Missy: And I remember distinctly liking it and he liked it and we were both a little embarrassed over it, so we decided we were gonna meet somewhere near our fishing hole in our woods where we used to go fishing. So we went there and we just tried it and I think both of us were kind of embarrassed and we just quit right away and... well. But then my interest kind of waned a little bit until much later – I was an adult. Y'know, real life has a way of getting in the way of a lot of things. And I didn't really pick up the interest again until I was probably 28 or 29 years old and I remember at that time it was around the birth of the internet. And of course, as a lot of people can say, what's the first thing a spanko searches in a search engine for? [Laughter]

Spacey: Poptarts!

Missy: Spanking.

Spacey: Oh. [laughter]

Missy: And I do remember also, just to go back a little bit, I remember as a teenager, actually taking some of the stories that I liked and rewriting them to add spanking to them and put myself in it. And I liked to write and I liked to write fiction about spanking, and I started-

Mako: She's good at it, actually.

Missy: When the internet was born and I did that first search for spanking on the internet, I actually found several roleplay... Ageplay, roleplay schoolgirl email lists. Used to be offered on yahoo!, I don't know if they still are. There were several that I was involved with. One was ASR, which stood for Ageplay Spanking Roleplay, and I started on that. Then I started on another one that was a school roleplay list called Hardacre Hall[?], which was based on... Sort of like the story of Matilda. We had Miss Trunchbull.

Spacey: Ooh, I love that story.

Missy: We wrote stories and that was a lot of fun for me, I got to meet and talk with a lot of other people who were interested in spanking. And then, I think through some unfortunate circumstances in my life... At the time I was married and my husband did not understand my attraction to spanking and really wanted nothing to do with it and that was just a small part of our marriage failing and eventually it did. And when I was going through my divorce - I was still actively involved in the ageplay, spanking roleplay list - I became friends with a woman on there, and I was going through my divorce, and she said why don't you come for a visit? Because she knew I just needed to get away, to clean my head. She said, 'I live in Virginia, why don't you come and you can spend a week or two with me and it's a change of scenery and it might do you some good'. So I decided that that was something I was gonna do. And I did and while I was in Virginia, I got invited to several real spanking parties – one that I got invited to was a DCS spanking party. DCS is a DC Spanking group here in the DC area. They do cater to mostly just spanking but a lot of the members have other interests. I also got to attend my first SCONY party and I don't know if anyone is familiar with SCONY but SCONY is the spanking club of New York. I went to my first party there. And having made that jump from roleplay strictly online to real? It was a real eye-opener for me and needless to say I never looked back. And while I was in Virginia, I got offered a job and decided this was really where I wanted to be. So I moved here and I've been here ever since and that's pretty much how I got started in spanking.

Spacey: Yeah, well, that's a good solid history and it seems like something you've given a lot of thought to thinking about how you came up through all that time. You must have changed a great deal over that period of time.

Missy: Uh, yeah, actually I did. When I... Like I said, it was kind of a difficult step to make that journey from online to real. I do remember some things that happened at the first spanking party. I walked in the door – and it was in someone's home – and there was a girl that walked in behind me and she walked over to this guy who was sitting on the couch and she turned around, flipped up her skirt and bent over for him to give her a swat. And my eyes just went as big as saucers and my mouth dropped open and I was, 'oh my God'. [laughter] I thought I'd died and went to Heaven.

Spacey: 'Me next!' [laughter]

Missy: And then I went to a SCONY party and that was just a little overload for me – I was brand new and... No pun intended, but I was brand spanking new. [laughter] And I basically just put my back up against the wall and watched everything that was going on, and to be honest with you I think a lot of people didn't even know I was there. But I really enjoyed seeing everything that I saw. And y'know, like I said, I never looked back.

Mako: I think that brings about something really important which is that – you can be brand new to kink in general or you can be knowledgable in all different kinds of kink and come to a new one and still have that kind of first- day jitters, that hesitation of being new. I know that a lot of age play folks that we know are very frightened of spanking – 'oh it's gonna hurt, it's gonna be bad! I won't like it, that's not for me, it's all about hitting, it can never feel good...' Which isn't true! There's all kinds of ways to get a spanking.

Spacey: I imagine there's a whole spectrum. I'm on the softer side.

Mako: And I'm not. [laughter] Actually I have a spanking story that is related to that, that has to do with our other partner, our sister Penny. I was down visiting at her house one time and I have, I guess - what's the term for it? A 'leather bottom'?

Spacey: I think it's the iron bottom that you may have graduated to.

Missy: Actually I think the proper term, as my SCONY sisters and brothers would say, is 'cast iron butt'.

Mako: Right.

Spacey: There you go.

Mako: Although, I'll tell you about it – which is that I don't always have it. It's like a selective superpower for me? If I'm Big, oh yeah, I can take a lot. And I was down visiting and - my sister lives in North Carolina, I live in Virginia, it's many hours by car, I really needed to get on the road... But she wanted to spank me to a certain point - I think she wanted me to cry or something - before I got on the road. And she started wailing away at me at this thing called a jokari paddle.

Spacey: Yeah, which is the evil stick of the spanking world.

Mako: It is, it's death for most people. It's kind of like a ping pong paddle on steroids – it's as thick as my thumb. The blade is wide...

Spacey: It's wooden.

Mako: It hurts. [laughs] But it doesn't hurt me.

Spacey: It was originally a paddle for a game called jokari. But it's become such a popular instrument in certain spanking circles that it's known far and wide...

Mako: It's evil and terrible and bad. Especially if you hate wood.

Missy: Well it's nowhere near as bad as a plastic bath brush. [laughter]

Spacey: Oh my.

Missy: All of those plastic bath brushes can go right in the trash. [laughter]

Mae: Aw!

Spacey: I guess we'll have to expect our toy back.

Mako: Or that ikea thing – the devil? That thing is terrible.

Spacey: Which, it turns out, ikea doesn't sell anymore. What we're talking about, 'the devil', is a particular rectangular spatula that ikea used to sell that was... It was metal although it had a rubberised end – the spatula part was rubberised – and it was weighted just so that it was the perfect pain impliment. [laughter] If you liked pain, this was for you. Everybody else need not apply. [laughter]

Mako: Right, in order to use the rubberised bit on your bottom, you needed to have a rubberised bottom.

Spacey: And there were holes in the spatula so that it would travel faster through the air.

Mako: Right, I mean toys do make a really big difference, right?

Missy: Yes, they do. It depends, y'know, whether you're using wood or rubber...

Mako: Or leather.

Missy: Right, or leather. Actually wood or leather. I don't even like using rubber.

Mako: Oh there's that one thing – we have this one toy that actually... I don't even know where it is. I hope they lost it.

Missy: No, we did not use it.

Mako: It's called the 'sausage'?

Spacey: Oh, I heard of this!

Mako: It has, like, a grippy handle? And it's a folded over piece of rubber tubing – it's really thick. It's both thuddy and stingy at the same time. Which makes it horrible.

Spacey: Oh, we have graduated to toys rather early, but obviously spankings don't require those kinds of impliments.

Mako: You can just use your hand! I know that a big thing that I heard you say and certainly i've seen, I know that a lot of spanking fetishry is wrapped up in that schoolgirl identiy and like the uniforms and stuff. Talk about that, how did you come to that? What exactly is it for you?

Missy: Like I explained, my spanking interest as an adult really began with ageplay spanking roleplay email lists on the internet, and then graduated when I moved to virginia to real time spanking parties. I always identified, or started off identifying, as a schoolgirl. It's something – I think it's something true to my heart. I was very involved with DCS and also with SCONY. Miss Margaret and her husband Mr Reiner[?] were very instrumental in guiding me along the path so to speak. I was very involved and active with their parties. They also had weekends in the mountains where other adults like myself, female and male, would come and it would be a chance for us to explore spanking as far as... Well maybe I should just explain a little bit about SCONY. SCONY is the Spanking Club of New York and their whole... I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for...

Mako: Their MO – they way they do it?

Missy: The way that they work is they believe in traditional, over the knee, platonic, discipline spanking.

Mako: I know what you're getting at. It's that whole protocol of hers.

Missy: Yes. Yes, it is her protocol, but there's a reason that she has it set up that way. For some, spanking is not about eroticism or about any sort of sexual play. There are quite a few people out there who enjoy spanking from the sense of either domestic discipline or from a maternal or paternal - whether it be teacher or authority figure or disciplinarian. Someone that will hold them accountable for their behaviour or their transgressions. And those transgressions can be real or they can be role played. They can be totally imagined. The way that Miss Margaret worked is that she believes in platonic, non-sexual, over the knee, traditional discipline like you would have received from your mother or your father or school teacher or some other authority figure. At her weekends in the mountains, we get to actually dress up in uniforms and it... While it's not age play per se, all of us come together as adults with a youthful mindset. We can be mischievous, we can brat. She provides an outlet or way for us to get those spankings by attending classes that she sets up that some of the attendees actually teach. I myself have taught one class. During the class, the tops will hand out referrals if they see you chewing gum or talking or passing notes or misbehaving in class.

Spacey: Right, it's like pretend school.

Missy: It's like pretend school and these again are all consenting adults who are there with a youthful mindset – they're not necessarily age players. And they get referrals and then they can take those referrals to a top of their choice to receive their punishment, and the punishment can range from being grounded to their room or lines or getting a spanking. A lot of people don't find it easy to ask for a spanking and they love playing the school girl and school boy and being held accountable. And so that really appealed to me and that's what I love about SCONY. When I started out, I was strictly a bottom and then somewhere down the line – around the time I met mako – I started exploring topping a little bit because I found that I really enjoyed giving that pleasure that I received to other people. And being a switch actually is beneficial, because having been a bottom, you know how to anticipate everything to the bottom that you're playing with.

Mako: 'Cause you've been there.

Missy: Because you've been there. And you know where to hit and where not to hit and you know how to read body language. You know when they've had enough or when they've not had enough.

Spacey: I was hoping she could say more about-... 'Cause we have this school scene set up which, again, to me reads age play but, as she said, not everybody was into age play. So I was hoping you could say more about what that means, that not everybody was interested in age play. Like, there are obviously people who have different ideas of what that means. And so I'd be curious what that seems to mean for those folks.

Missy: Right, I think it's important for a lot of people that aren't necessarily into age play. or for some reason it doesn't appeal to them, that there are places they can go, such as SCONY, where they approach it from the aspect of 'these are consenting adults who just want to roleplay, per se, with a youthful mindset'. They can dress like schoolgirls or schoolboys or they can wear their regular clothes but.. In a sense, it's play acting of sorts. They're not age players.

Spacey: Which is to say maybe they're not regressing, they're not feeling regressed at the time, is that perhaps...? I just wanna see if I can understand it.

Missy: This is kind of difficult because there are a lot of people out there who struggle with liking spanking. I was one of them in the beginning. I struggled with it a lot, whether it was the right thing or not. And I think that Miss Margaret provides a service for a lot of people who are not sure – some of those people actually go on further into other areas of BDSM, other areas of kink, but for me when I was starting out, this was all I had, was SCONY. I have moved on to other things but I stil enjoy going back to the SCONY things where I know what to expect. Everybody there are consenting adults who just- and bare with me because I’m trying to keep my description to what I know Miss Margaret would approve of as for as describing her group because I do not want to describe her group in any other way than what she intends it to be. Her rules are clear. She doesn't refer to her group as age players. They are consenting adults with a youthful mindset.

Mako: You know what I think? I think that... 'Cause I've been to some SCONY events myself. I went to one with Missy. And it was really interesting to me – I have this very particular perspective on it. I think that spanking is kind of like a gateway activity? Because we've all had experience with it as children. Either we experienced it, or we were around it, or we heard about it... it was this mysterious thing that happend to other people, but everybody knows what it is. I really appreciate what SCONY does for people because I think what they do is they're creating this safe space-

Missy: Exactly

Mako: -where if you've got this interest, you can take your first steps into it.

Missy: And she provides a very safe environment, from welcoming new people at their first party, making them feel safe and comfortable and that's what it's about, it's about being safe and comfortable. She has very strict rules or protocols on what occurs at her parties. And some people will balk at that. But I for one enjoy that. I think that there are people out there with different tastes and different desires and her group does meet the needs of a lot of people.

Mae: I can't speak for this specific group but I think that one thing that some people do is they might use a little bit of age play to get to that place where they feel really comfortable spanking. Where other people might use a little bit of psanking to get to that place where they feel more like they're doing age play and they feel really Little. So sometimes it's more an activity or a behaviour. Yeah, it's like a tool or a vehicle to get to a specific place. Mako: Oh, for sure. There's a point that I really wanna make about this too. Part of my experience when I was at a SCONY event was parts of it really clicked for me and parts of it were kind of awkward. But that's only because of my own particulars. Spanking, for me, sometimes is just about discipline. But other times it's really a very sexual thing for me. And one of the things – I remember... It was actually really funny. I went to this weekend with Missy and she's very well known there and very beloved and a lot of people were excited to meet me and frankly to take me aside and tell me that I better be good to her or they would kill me. [laughter] And Margaret spent a lot of time with me just kind of talking to me for a bunch of different reasons. One of the reasons is, Missy made it no big secret, that I'm one of those big scary age players that does a lot of that age play stuff! [spooky music] [laughter]

Missy: Actually, to be honest with you, I don't know that I told her.

Mako: You didn't tell her?!

Missy: I don't think so.

Mako: Well maybe I told her. I dunno, I have a big mouth. [laughter]

Spacey: Really!

Mako: And at least two of them – if not three (sorry sister). At some point early in the weekend, we sorta sat down together and had a conversation about her protocol and the way things went and even though I'm a switch, I made a decision to only be a bottom at the weekend because when I spank people, it's sexual for me. And I knew that that didn't sort of fit their medium so I elected not to do it.

Missy: You mean you were a top for the weekend?

Mako: No, I was a bottom for the weekend. I let that Irish guy's wife spank me, and Sue spank me...

Missy: I was just wondering, if you knew that spanking was an erotic thing for you and you knew that wasn't the place, why would you choose to be the bottom?

Mako: Um, because if I was gonna spank as a top – you know her rule, the whole 'don't cross the crevice' thing? And all that. I find it arousing, for my other side. But I think it's more manageable for me to pot it down when I'm a bottom than as a top. So that was just the choice that I made. And then similarly, back in our room where we weren't out in SCONY property I wore a diaper to bed and I age played it up. But I didn't bring those elements out into the main group. 'Cause I was selective about it. And it's not because it's a value-judgement, just- I modified myself to fit the way the group goes.

Spacey: I've done the same thing for the spanking group here, the SOS group. Athough their members are... Actually the people who organise it are age players. We've had Scotty here for instance on the show, talking about his experiences with age play and bratting. He did a fantastic job. But because they consider themselves sort of a pure spanking group, they have very specific rules about how you can go about it.

Missy: Right, I agree with you. Because for some people, to see someone in a diaper would be a real big turn off.

Mako: Right. They may not be ready for it, it may not be their cup of tea. That's one thing I really wanna make sure I’m really clear about. I don't think that spankos are like, junior players. They're as tough as we are. They're as advanced as we are.

Spacey: Right, and they often get called, 'that's your starter, and then you graduate'.

Mako: And that's not fair! It's a perfectly valid thing that that's their thing. Oh, time for a food metaphor! If their icing on their cake is mostly spanking coloured, with just maybe a little age play candle on top, it's just as valid as if it's flipped the other way around. And we have a lot of in that community who are really great, really nice people, who I think have grown and learnt things in exposure to us. We've learnt it from them too. One of the hardest spankers I know who, I won't say her name because we haven't asked her, I haven't talked to her in years too, is from that group. She was able to make me cry with her hands. That's an accomplishment. Although I was Big... No, that makes it even more of an accomplishment, come to think of it!

Spacey: So... Must have Iron Hands. Or maybe Diamond Hands.

Mako: So big... just big, strong... Ugh, you know who I'm talking about.

Missy: Actually I can think of two people.

Mako: Yeah. I think they both did, actually. Oh, it was so good.

Spacey: So, speaking of that SCONY group, I think I've heard of a similar kind of group that meets sometimes at other hotels, I think one time they met in Dallas, I know... Shadow Lane?

Missy: Yeah, Shadow Lane and Crimson Moon.

Mako: Yeah, Crimson Moon's out of Chicago. Oh- show notes! [Spacey laughs]

Mae: Are they the same people who write the books? The Shadow Lane books?

Mako: Yes! And they're awesome. They're based out of California – actually, it's really weird. The place where they used to have their really big party? In Sherman Oaks[?], California? I never knew this – it's about a mile and a half from my Aunt in California's house. So all these years I was all spanking obsessed and just growing up wanting to be around all these other people spanking each other, they were down the street from me.

Mae: Awesome.

Mako: I was underage, I couldn't have gone anyway –

Spacey: Of course -

Mako: - and now I don't have family near there anymore and I don't think they meet there anymore. But it's kind of like... Ooh, y'know, I coulda...!

Spacey: Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.

Mako: But speaking of the whole spanking leading you to other things thing... So, I know that your first exposure to age play as its own thing wasn't through me, right?

Missy: No, actually, my first exposure to age play was not through SCONY or through Mako – it was actually through Black Rose. At the time I was in a relationship with a dominant, I was his submissive at the time, I believe that was when it occurred. And we were at the big Black Rose event and I remember walking into the dungeon area and they had a section of the dungeon area that was set up for the Littles! And I remember coming in and seeing this boy - and the reason I use the term boy is because that's what he looked to me at the time. He didn't look like a man, he looked like a boy. Only this boy was dressed up in a Winnie the Pooh outfit and he was holding a Winnie the Pooh! And this...

Spacey: Must have been Christopher Robin!

Missy: Actually, um, it's somebody that we later on down the road, I met again – and now I'm really good friends with. But I remember being so drawn to him and at the time he was sitting on the floor and I think he was about to get his diaper changed or something and he had a pacifier in his mouth. And I remember leaving the group of people I was with and walking right over and just stopping and staring and my mouth dropped open and I was like, 'woah!' And I couldn't decide at the time what was more appealling to me – the fact that he was dressed up as a little boy with a diaper and a pacifier? Or the person who was changing his diaper? I don't know what attracted me more, him or his Mommy. It was kind of weird. I guess at the time what really attracted me was thinking, 'wow, that is so cool to be able to be Little like that!' and I found myself standing there staring and watching and wishing it was me. And it was just- I don't know, it just spoke to my heart. It was so cute and so loving and all I wanted to do was to go over and play with him. And then I remember shortly after that, I remember seeing something about it on TV and I think about age play and maybe it was the Jerry Springer show, I'm not sure. [M and S groan] And again I remember thinking 'wow, that is so cool!' And I was already heavily involved as a school girl and as a bottom or a submissive. Well I tried the submissive thing for a while and after a while I decided it wasn't the thing for me because I'm not really submissive. And I identify more with the school girl part because being a school girl, you're not totally submissive. You're a little bit dominant and you're submissive at the same time but you're not ever totally submissive.

Mako: You get to have some fire.

Missy: Yeah, and so when I saw this little boy, I just wanted to be involved in it. I wanted to play with him, I wanted to be like him, I wanted to change his diaper... And I just remember that from then on, I was always interested and every time we went to the Black Rose event, I would always search out the Littles area. And then I remember another Black Rose event much later, I actually met Penny and Mako was there as well as a few other people that we are friends with now. And I actually spent most of the Black Rose convention in the Littles area! Colouring and playing with them and I had a ball. It was just an absolute blast.

Mako: It was awesome. It's definitely that thing where one fetish can bring you to another, right?

Spacey: I will say though that if that Christopher Robin is who I think it was? He's got a little fire in him too.

Mako: Oh, he's got a lot of fire in him! [Spacey laughs] And he's a big brat too. [imitates] 'I'm not a brat!' [laughs] I can just hear it now. Um, I think that it's neat because I know that as Missy and I got to know one another and sort of mixed our chocolate and out peanut butter together to make this sweet thing that we have, we've both done learning from one another. It's really neat. I think, certainly, you've gotten your knowledge of regression and what people are like that are like that from me! Although it's neat because she regreseses too!

Missy: But not very often.

Mako: It's true.

Missy: Well, being a Mommy to three Littles takes up a lot of my time – I actually don't get to be Mommy very often to Mako as much as I am to my other two Littles, Richard and Rachel. And really also it doesn't leave a lot of creative time or mental headspace for my Little to come out. So that's really the biggest regret of being a Mommy – is that I started off topping and I identified as what you would call a service top, meaning I topped other people because I got pleasure out of making them happy. It wasn't something that was truly in my heart. And I think that's how I got involved in being a Mommy the same way. Because I knew what I was doing as a Mommy to these Littles was bringing them extreme joy. And seeing their joy then in turn made me happy and in turn gave me joy. But it doesn't leave a whole lot of time for me unfortunately.

Mako: Poly stuff is hard like that, I think.

Missy: Of course then that real life creeps back in too, so, y'know.

Mako: Yeah, it's true.

Spacey: But you know that love is infinite but the calender is not.

Mako: Oh, that calender's a monster. It's one of the reasons why I’m so thankful that Missy allows me to do the podcasts and all the many podcasts that we do. Our time is precious, really, it's really a big gift.

Spacey: After this show, you need to make some time.

Mako: I agree, I agree. See, he said so – so it has to happen.

Spacey: Well, I would like to talk a little bit more about the practical, the particulars, of spanking because not everybody coming to this is gonna be familiar with 'how exactly do you get started with this kind of stuff?' And I kind of feel a little bit jaded and old hat so I may not always ask the right questions but also there's always more to learn so where can we start?

Missy: Well I think the best thing to do if you're interested or if you think you might be interested in spanking is talking to someone through other organisations and talk to them about your questions. Search out munch groups. Look for local area spanking groups in your area. All of the spanking groups that I have been involved with advocate extensively for educating new people – new to spanking itself. And they can take you aside and talk to you if you have questions and you wanna know more about it. Then as you feel more comfortable and you want to go beyond some of the munches, there are groups where actual play parties are held.

Mako: DCS is like that.

Missy: DCS is like that. They have spanking parties periodically. I wanna say they have one about every two months and as a new person, you're welcome to come. And when you come to a party- actually coming to a party or a munch or anything is the hardest thing about doing that. It's making that first step to actually get out of the car and go inside.

Spacey: Indeed.

Missy: And once you actually accomplish that and you're inside, you're never ever pressured into playing or– you don't have to go and be like, the centre of the party and have everyone asking you a thousand and one questions. Everyone understands what it's like to be new. And you're welcome to watch and observe and if you have questions you can talk to someone. And there...

Mako: Ooh, yeah. There's another thing to understand about this too which is that spanking – it means different things to different people. It's not to say that if you wanna play with someone that the pants have gotta come off, the underpants have gotta come off, you're gonna get hit with this big monster thing... that's not true. I have certainly seen people – hell I've been one of these people – that go to a party and get spanked over your jeans, just a little, right when you first get started and see how it feels.

Missy: And actually, that's how I started out. My first few spankings I got were over my clothes because I was not at a level where I was comfortable having someone take my pants down. And then when I did reach that level, I might have had a skirt on or pants and they would spank me over my underpants. And then I progressed further and they were actually able to pull my underpants down.

Spacey: Hooray!

Mako: I'm all for that.

Missy: And for some people... And again, this is between consenting adults and if you're interested in getting involved in spanking and you wanna start – start off slow, you don't have to do anything that you're not comfortable with. You obviously wanna do it with someone that you trust. I always recommend that you start off with a munch group or a local spanking group to get some information and come to a munch and once you feel comfortable progressing to a party, like I say, come, observe. And once you're ready to progress from there, there's lots of people who would be willing to help you and it's again consenting adults, and you can pre-negotiate what you're comfortable with, what you're not comfortable with.

Spacey: I was just thinking... So, I agree, that's absolutely a great way to start. But the thing is that a lot of people listening to this show, or at least some people listening to this show, might be already in an existing relationship. Probably an age play based relationship if they're listening to this.

Mako: Sure.

Spacey: And maybe they wanna encoporate some spanking at home in the bedroom. So it's good to go out and go to the munches and that kind of thing but if they just wanna try some of this at home, what's the best way to get started?

Mako: Well I got one thing to start with which is to understand that there's different sensations, right?

Missy: Well, actually, even before you get to the ensations, I think it's important to speak with your partner and that you both be on the same page that this is something that you both wanna do. Because if it's something one person that wants it and the other person's not so sure about it, it's not gonna work. You both have to be consenting, you both have to be wanting to do this for it to work adequately. Then the next thing that you have to do is discuss with your partner – do you wanna just do this plain right out, just straight out, or do you wanna encorporate some role play? For a lot of bottoms that are about to be spanked, something that's really important and really drives them is being made accountable for something. Being told, 'you've been naughty and I’m gonna put you over my knee -

Mako: Ooh, scary...

Missy: - and I’m gonna spank your bare bottom because you have been a naughty boy' – or a naughty girl. Or you've been a naughty wife or a naughty husband.

Mako: I love my wife. [laughs]

Spacey: I'm sure that several of that some of our readers are taking that section out and looping it over and over. [laughter]

Mae: We should have Missy do that! Do a loop!

Missy: I could actually do that again if you'd like.

Spacey: Oh, I think they might.

Mako: [laughs] You're getting a tiny bit red!

Missy: [seductively You have been a very naughty girl. And I am going to spank your bare bottom. [Mako & Spacey giggling]

Spacey: Hot.

Missy: Okay, so those are things you wanna discuss with your partner ahead of time. A lot of guys wanna just do it straight out, a lot of people use roleplay. As far as actually getting started, what I recommend is that you be comfortable. Having been spanked and having spanked someone, I've learnt very quickly that if your bottom is uncomfortable and your top is uncomfortable, it's not gonna work. If you're just starting out, the best position to be in to start learning about spanking and if you wanna be spanked is on the bed. Have the top sit on the bed like you're sitting up in bed to watch TV. And then have the person who wants to be spanked just drape themselves across your lap and I recommend that first if you've never done this before, if you're not sure how this is gonna work? Do it over your clothes. And just use your hand.

Mako: The hand's very versatile.

Missy: The hand is very versatile, it's actually the spanko's favourite impliment. It goes everywhere that you go and you don't need a toy bag. Start off with a few light swats on each cheek and then... Be in constant communication with your bottom that's over your lap. See how they're taking it. If they like it, then you can increase the frequency and you can increase the swats – make 'em harder, make 'em softer. You wanna make sure you're always in constant communication with your bottom.

Spacey: This is great advice.

Missy: And then as you're more comfortable with the situation, you can then progress to taking your pants down and once you're obviously down to either panties or you're down to just bare flesh, your impliment's – your hand, actually – it's gonna feel a lot different than over the clothes. So that same swat you gave over a pair of pants is not gonna be like it is on bare skin. It's gonna sting a lot more. So you have to be aware of that. And just- you wanna just start lightly and build up as their tolerance increases. And again, always keep in communication with the person that you're spanking.

Mako: I wanna toss a couple more things in there. There's a really big difference between going from zero miles an hour to sixty miles an hour all in one go, versus coming up slowly - that warm up period, right? I know that me personally, even though I have a really high pain tolerance, if you just pop me like crazy right from the beginning, I can take way less and it hurts a lot more. It's kind of like warming up to go running.

Spacey: Make a note of this.

Mako: Don't write it down. [laughter] I also know that... This is right, the hand is really versatile – depending on how you hold your hand, depends on even the sensations it gives.

Missy: Right. You can cup your hand, that gives more of a thuddy feeling. If you make your hand flat and spread your fingers out, that of course is gonna obviously be a little bit more stingy. Then of course the force that you smack your hand down with is obviously gonna be either stingy or it's gonna be thuddy. And you always wanna start off slow and then progress as your bottom's tolerance builds. And you can alternate from cheek to cheek. As you progress you can do what they would call 'rapid fire' or you can do it slowly, more sensually. Again, you're gonna be in communication with your bottom. So you're gonna already have discussed ahead of time what you are looking to achieve.

Mako: Oh right, and there's... What's that thing, the layer cake method? Always about the food, I don't know. Let's say that you are unsure of how hard to hit, right? You can hit lightly or a medium hit, but if you do a whole bunch in the same place, that's progressively ouch-y too, right?

Spacey: That's actually my favourite technique for really getting people who don't like to move during a spanking to move. It's called the 'same damn spot' technique. [Mako laughs]

Missy: Hate that same damn spot. Yeah, you wanna move around – you don't wanna smack in the same spot, unless your bottom says 'ooh, I really like that'. Then obviously... You wanna have some communication ahead of time set up as far as safewords or negotiate how your bottom's gonna tell you when they've had enough. And obviously if they're liking what you're doing and you're gonna keep it up, remember that you wanna move around. Make it all over, make it an even sensation. Over the lap, on the bed... If that no longer does anything for you, you can try other things too. You can try sitting on a chair and having them over your lap. As a school girl myself, I can tell you one of the hottest things that I encountered–... And I use the term 'hottest' loosely, because it's really not erotic for me, but when I say 'hottest', I mean it's...

Mako: Powerful.

Missy: It's powerful to me. It really pushes my buttons, so to speak. Is when a top sits on a bar stool and puts me over their lap. I'm completely off the floor. Imagine a top sitting on a bar stool that's high and your'e over their lap and your hands and your feet are off the floor and you feel just like a little kid getting spanked.

Spacey: And you're off balance.

Missy: Yes, yes. Obviously, it's not something I would recommend trying if your bottom is bigger than you. You gotta keep that in mind because you have to be able to secure that bottom safely on your lap so they don't go rolling off. But that is something that appeals to me and speaks to me – it really pushes my buttons.

Mako: It speaks to me too.

Missy: Because it makes me feel just like a school girl.

Mako: Yeah. There's a position that I really like.

Spacey: Oh, I know what it is!

Mako: It's the diaper position, right?!

Spacey: Yeah, that's right. When you hold somebody's legs... You put them on a bed, and you hold their legs straight up in the air.

Missy: And actually, most bottoms hate that position because that gives you premium access to that sweet spot! Which is that area right below your bottom cheek, at the top of your thigh.

Spacey: Which actually gets to another technique because I heard one of the big problems with that for people who can't tolerate a lot of pain is it stretches the skin out. So that's actually one of my favourite techniques, when I'm delivering a spanking, is to take the skin and just pull it back a little with one hand before I start smacking with the other.

Mako: Right, it's because you're stretching the muscle out and so it's not as... What would the word be? Adapost[?]. Like, because the fat is pulled, it's not as-

Spacey: It's not as jiggly. [Mako laughs]

Missy: Right, and for some people, too, they find a lot of comfort in exploring spanking not even being over a lap. Just lying on the bed. Or laying over the arm of a couch.

Mako: Touching their toes.

Missy: Or bending over and holding onto a chair.

Mako: Yeah, it's interesting because the thing about spanking is I think that depending on the context, it can be nurturing or it can be invasive. It can be sexual or it can be non sexual.

Missy: Or it can be parental or it can even be just like domestic discipline.

Mako: Right. It's so variable. I know that for me, one of the reasons that I like the diaper position so much is that it's very-

Spacey: Besides the obvious.

Mako: Well, it's very exposing, right? And so- I'm a bit of a voyeur and a bit of an exhibitionist... Okay, a lot of both those things. [Mae laughs] And I like to be seen, and I like it... Okay, big secret that's not a secret about me. My core fetish isn't even age play. And it isn't even spanking. It's the violation of my personal space boundaries.

Spacey: Heey! No violating your personal space! [?]

Mako: [laughs] Not you! Well, maybe sometimes. [laughter] I like people getting inside that distance zone. And there's always different ways that that can happen. Like that thing where a Mom licks her hand and uses it to wipe her kid's face?

Missy: Oh, yes.

Mako: I like that done to me.

Missy: I'll have you know that there is power in a mother's spit. [Mako laughs] It's magical. [Mae laughs]

Spacey: It's made of formula 409.

Missy: They should bottle that crap.

Mako: And you know, they both do this to me – and things like it – all the time. And I actually really like it, no matter how much I say that I don't like it. In terms of that invasiveness thing, it's really good for me. And as this whole thing relates to spanking – that's really good for me too. I think being exposed and having my legs up.. And just the same thing that Missy was saying about being on the bar stool and having her legs, her hands and feet off the ground is good for her, the diaper position is good for me because it makes me feel small and manhandled and controlled. I really like getting a spanking during a diaper change for moving around during a diaper change. I do that to people who squirm during a diaper change. Because, A, I think it's kinda hot and B, I want people to sit freakin' still! But I think it's neat because just the same way as the thing I was saying a few days ago about how you can spread age play on anything like peanut butter, I think spanking is like that too. I think It mixes easily with other things.

Spacey: Are there any other practicalities that we need to know? For folks just getting started.

Missy: This goes back to knowing the person that you're spanking. You wanna be in constant communication with them. You also, as you are spanking them, you're obviously gonna be observing the changes taking place in their bottom cheeks as you're spanking them. The first reaction is obviously gonna be that the skin is gonna turn red.

Spacey: Yay!

Mako: That's good.

Missy: So if you're spanking someone and you notice that that slight pink turns to a deeper shade of red and as you're going on and they're totally getting into it, what's happening and what's occurring is their body is enjoying it and they're gonna start to encounter an endorphoine rush. So they are gonna reach a point where may not be able to tell you, 'hey, I've had enough, hey, you need to stop'. So as a top, it's your responsibility to monitor that bottom and if you see their skin as you're spanking starting to turn from red to purple or a light shade of purple or you start to see dark red spots... Now again, we're just talking about using your hand, we haven't even talked about other impliments. But just using your hand and if you notice the skin starting to change to actually looking like a bruise – and people know what a bruise looks like. And if you see that starting to occur and this is their first time, you need to slow down and probably stop. Because the last thing you wanna do is damage your bottom. You don't wanna make this so unpleasant for them that they're never gonna want to do it again. Because like I said, they're gonna be into it by the time your skin reaches that colour. And if they're just starting it, it's not gonna take long. And obviously if it's somebody who has been doing it a while, their pain tolerance is going to increase and their ability to withstand more and deeper spanking is going to also increase. And at that time.. And I would recommend doing quite a few sessions with just your hand before you even think about moving on to an impliment. And if you move onto an impliment, make sure that you've researched it and that you know the difference between them. Because you have wood impliments and you have rubber impliments and you have leather impliments. And they're all gonna do something different. Wood, of course, is gonna be more stingy and if you don't warm up the bottom by giving a light spanking ahead of time, wood is gonna finish your play real quick.

Missy: That's why Missy hates wood.

Mako: And it can also damage the skin more so those are all things that you need to be aware of. Leather you can use starting off. You can start with your hand for a few minutes and then go right to leather. Leather is supple – it's not as stingy. It can be stingy but it's not usually stingy. It's more thuddy. And it won't damage the skin as quickly as wood will. I always recommend that you play for quite a while before you ever introduce wood into your play scene.

Spacey: So what about, if you're spanking, if you're the spanker and you've been spanking for a while and your hand starts to hurt.

Missy: Yes.

Spacey: Are there things you can do about that?

Missy: Yes, that's another thing. Just like it's important to know the colour of your bottom's bottom, obviously, and be aware of them, it's also important you take care of yourself. If your arm starts to hurt or your hand starts to hurt and you really can't continue, those are things that you would want to make your bottom aware of. Say, 'hey, you know what? This really hurts, I don't think I can do much more of this tonight'. And then stop your play. And your tolerance will also build up as well as their tolerance will build up. And also another thing to keep in mind is if you spank them with your hand and your hand is bothering you and hurting you, talk to your bottom, say 'hey, can I switch to this small leather paddle?' And see what they say. At that point, if your hand can no longer take more, they may be willing to try a leather paddle. I would recommend you start off with leather before you ever attempt using any wood. So you gotta take care of each other.

Spacey: What about gloves or something like that?

Missy: Gloves?

Mako: Oh, like leather gloves? Those help.

Missy: Uh, yes, I have seen some tops wearing leather gloves – they find that it does help their hands. As a bottom, I don't think that I've had too many people–... Maybe once, I had somebody use a leather glove. And actually I really, really liked it. It definitely gives a different sensation when you're being spanked with it. It's kind of thuddy, whereas any time you normally spank somebody with your hand on bare skin, it's stingy. But when they have a leather glove on, it actually kind of is thuddy. And enjoyable. And it will protect the top's hand.

Mako: I'll tell you one mistake that people made.I know, 'cause I've made it when I first started spanking people. You do that thing when you pull your arm way back and come crashing down... And that's just not necessary.

Missy: No, your shoulder will give out in about ten minutes.

Mako: Yeah. You flex your wrist, you flex your elbow and you get a lot of bang for your buck out of small motions and movements. You can reposition the bottom and change the angle slightly and just, y'know, quick pops. Just flex the wrist. And you get a lot out of that. You don't have to kill yourself spanking somebody.

Missy: No.

Spacey: So I know there's some other safety things to keep in mind. We talked about monitoring the colour of skin. But I know there's also places you need to make sure you're not hitting, too. Usually aim for major muscle groups, for instance.

Missy: Well, I think when you're starting off with spanking and you're trying it, obviously you're gonna be spanking on the butt. At least, that's where I would advise if you're gonna start off learning about spanking. You wanna just start off on the butt cheeks itself. A lot of people have adapost tissue on their butt cheeks and so the sensation as you smack is gonna be different than if you, let's say, go over to the side closer to the hip where there's not as much fat. And it's gonna feel differently. So you need to experiment with your bottom.

Mako: Carefully.

Missy: Obviously you don't wanna go smacking above the tail bone. What I usallly like to do when I spank somebody for the first time is I place my hand on the small of their back and place my thumb right at the top of - for lack of a better word – their butt crack. I put my thumb there so I know not to smack any higher than where my thumb is.

Spacey: 'Cause it's gonna hurt if you do. [laughs]

Missy: Yes, it's gonna feel entirely different. And it's gonna hurt.

Mako: In a not good way.

Missy: And you also don't wanna go spanking on the tail bone itself. Because as we know, the tail bone is fragile and it can break very easily and nobody wants to have that happen.

Spacey: That's right.

Missy: You wanna alternate from cheek to cheek. You can go down to the top of your thighs – and again, this is something you wanna pre-negotiate with your bottom. If they have no problem with you spanking their thighs then have at it. But starting out, I would recommend you just stick to the butt cheeks. If you decide to move down any lower on the thighs, you obviously wanna avoid the back of the knees. You never, ever, ever want to strike a person on the back of the knees at any time, ever.

Spacey: And why is that?

Missy: Because that is a vulnerable area. You have a lot of blood vessels going through there and you can hit them hard enough that you can cause some damage in the blood vessels and the veins and arteries and you can cause a blood clot. And can seriously injure somebody that way. The same way you don't wanna go any higher than the thumb, because you have your kidneys, that are much further up on your waist above your tail bone. But if you go spanking above the butt cheeks onto the back area, you don't want to strike anywhere near the kidneys because that can also cause damage.

Spacey: Good information.

Missy: If in any doubt, just stick to the butt cheeks. That's what they're there for.

Mako: And there are signals – even when the person being spanked themselves maybe doesn't know that they have had enough? There are signals that the body gives off. Like, you'll tremble, right?

Missy: Yes. If they start to undergo an endorphine rush, you may notice that they stop moving around as much as they were. I know with me when I get spanked – and I get spanked really hard – and it starts off with a spanking and goes to leather impliments and I start to go off into la la land, I stop moving around as much. And I’m basically... [sighs] And all of the tops I play with know that when I get to that area, they need to be especially careful. Because I'll stop kicking and I'll stop squirming and I’m just in a pure endorphine bliss. And they can hit me at that point with a 2 by 4 and I wouldn't even blink. So that's why you really need to be aware of your bottom. If you notice they've stopped moving so much, a lot of times if they've had too much, they will clench up a lot more than normal.

Mako: Mm, I get that.

Missy: The squirming and moving around will increase more than what they were previously. The kicking and everything like that. So you periodically wanna stop and say 'how you doing? Are you okay?' Constantly check in with your bottom. That's the key here.

Mako: There's that thing about the colour in the hands too, right? Like, if they've been gripping onto something real tight? That's really a more bondage thing.

Missy: Mm. And again, another thing you can also try is that if they are over your lap and you're sitting in a chair or something like that and they don't feel that they can say 'hey, I've had enough' or they can't say 'yellow' or 'red' as a safe word – what they can also do and know ahead of time is that 'hey, if you've had enough and you want me to stop, reach out and grab my leg'.

Spacey: Some good safety information here all around. But I wanna bring it back to something a little more fun. Oh, how about rhythm? How does rhythm make a difference?

Mako: Well I don't have any rhythm so you can't talk to me about it! [laughs]

Spacey: [singing badly] He's got music, he's got rhythm!

Mako: No we don't. Well, you do. Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Missy: I'm not sure what you mean by rhythm – like when you're...?

Spacey: The rhythm of a spanking.

Missy: Obviously when you're spanking somebody and you're doing it slow with a few seconds in between swats, it's not going to be the same sensation than if you were spanking them rapidly, cheek to cheek. And that's gonna be stingier and will make them wiggle around a lot more. If they're not over your lap and they're on the bed and you're spanking them with your hands, sometimes you can straddle their legs and spank their butt cheeks with your hands like you would a set of bongo drums.

Mako: I love that, actually.

Missy: That's really all I know, as far as rhythm.

Spacey: I guess I bring it up because I know for me, I'm more likely to go into the subspace or the rush from the endorphines if I get brought on over something with a pattern, with a rhythm. If you start breaking up that pattern too much, like instead of 'smack, smack, smack, smack' or [faster] 'smack-smack-smack-smack-smack-smack-smack-smack-smack' but you go 'smack... smack-smack-smack... smack...'

Mako: It's jarring.

Missy: That makes a lot of sense, yes, that does. It makes a lot of sense because for a lot of people the spanking is all about their mindset – where their mind is. Beccause whether or not they roleplay, they've already done something ahead of time in their mind in anticipation of that spanking.

Mako: Oh, right.

Missy: They may not share it with you but trust me, if they're wanting to experiment with spanking, they've already set up some kind of role play in their mind.

Mako: They've choreographed it.

Missy: And as you're spanking them, yeah, you wanna keep a pattern... Like you said. I agree with what you said.

Mako: It's funny because, y'know... I can say this about Rachel 'cause I can do anything I want to Rachel, she said so. Which is – she's gonna blast[?] when she hears it, she always does when I bring it up... I know that one thing she does a lot is she – what's the word I'm looking for – forecasts or anticipates how it's gonna happen? So as you're spanking, she's tensing up or waiting for what's gonna happen. And then if you change the pattern... A change up.

Missy: One of the ways you can really throw somebody off is to change your pattern. And actually, this kind of goes hand in hand with discipline and punishment. I know oftentimes people will ask me – and I have heard this question brought up multiple times in spanking parties -

Mako: Oh, yeah.

Missy: 'How do you discipline someone who love to be spanked?

Mako: [laughs] Right.

Missy: One of the ways you can is- and again, this comes back to the mindset because as a bottom and a schoolgirl, one of the big things... And I think as for age players too, they can probably attest to this. The one thing that you never wanna hear from a top or a dominant I, 'I'm disappointed in you'.

Mako: Uuugh. I hate that so much.

Missy: You can discipline someone in a multitude of ways. Just telling a spanko, 'I'm disappointed in you, and you deserve to be punished for this' – and then making them wait and think about what they've done. And then when you actually go to spank them, go about it a different way. Make them know that you're disappointed in them and that you're gonna spank them because what they did was wrong and that you're holding them accountable. And change your pattern. The same rhythm you would have used on the person last week -

Mako: For fun

Missy: - for fun, change it up. Maybe give them rapid fire right off the bat. One of my favourite things to do when I’m spanking is I like to talk to my bottom. Especially if it's been a discipline spanking. As I’m spanking from cheek to cheek, whether it be slow or it be rapid fire, I explain to them, 'I'm very disappointed in you. And I’m spanking you because I love you and I want you to know that what you did was wrong'. And I think it's very effective.

Mako: It is effective, yeah.

Spacey: Yeah, you look somewhat uncomfortable right there!

Mako: A tiny little bit. [laughs]

Missy: And just to get away from the spanking a little bit, as far as disciplining a spanko – you don't have to spank them! Most spankos are open to various forms of corporal punishment or other discipline.

Mako: It's true.

Missy: Getting to know your bottom if you're developing a relationship with a bottom as a top, or you're a bottom developing a relationship with an adult as a top, is you learn all you can about that person. And once you get to a point where you're comfortable and you think you know that person – your partner – well enough, you know what makes them tick. And you know you can come up in a heartbeat with a way – a ton of ways – to discipline them without ever actually spanking them.

Mako: It's true.

Missy: You can withhold their privileges... Um...

Mako: Early bedtime?

Missy: Early bedtime. No computer use.

Mako: Ugh, that's a bad one for me.

Missy: No TV. And I don't wanna get too far off track because there's lots and lots of things – actually, discipline and punishment could actually be a show all in and of itself.

Spacey: Oh, I totally agree.

Missy: Because there's so many different things as a spanko or even as a Mommy that you can do to discipline your Little.

Mako: Oh, I like that.

Spacey: It could be a whole show about how we treat Mako when he does things he doesn't like us to talk about on this show any longer!

Mako: Oh, oh, don't bring it up! [Spacey laughs]

Missy: So yeah, there's many ways to discipline your Little besides spanking. But it is an effective way. [Mako laughs] Especially if they don't really like it but they don't like it because they know that it's a punishment. They're willing to accept it because they are your Little, just like you would from your real Mommy or Daddy. But they don't like it. I mean, how many of us as kids really liked getting spanked? I never did. Trust me, I got spanked all the way up through high school. My last year in high school, I was still getting spanked. Actually paddled. And I hated it. Go figure.

Mako: Y'know it's fascinating to me too, right? Because that thing I said before – 'my amazing cast iron bottom'. When I'm getting spanked? I don't have it.

Missy: Yes, again we go back to the mindset. Where your head is, your headspace.

Mako: It's amazing. All they have to do is, like, look at me sternly. And I’m already more than half way to being punished. And there's plenty of other things that they-... Don't do it brother! [Spacey laughs] Cut it out. There's plenty of other things that are like that. And I think too, and this gets back to a thing about spanking and discipline and punishment, is... There's this thing that I tell people about how – there are things that I want in my relationship in the way I’m treated that I don't like! But I like not liking them.

Mae: We should make a distinction between discipline and funishment.

Mako: Oh right. I think that in a toppy way...

Spacey: Maintenance spankings!

Mako: Oh, yeah!

Missy: Yes, maintenance spankings. Why are you getting spanked? Because it's time...

Mako: Right. Oh my gosh, we do that to each other fairly a lot! There are times that I'll come home from work and one or the other of them or the two of them will be like, 'it's time for you, buddy, 'cause you just need it'.

Missy: And sometimes being a Mommy, you need to do it.

Mako: Oh, it's true!

Missy: Sometimes you need to spank.

Spacey: Poor Mommies, their hands would get so soft and comfortable. [laughter]

Mae: Well that's where the tickling comes in! You alternate with the tickling and the spanking! And that keeps your hands soft.

Missy: And then sometimes things are really hard when the Mommy's also a bottom.

Mako: It's true. Um... Y'know, it's interesting to me because I think that one of the issues that we have sometimes is it depends on how you see your partner, right? I remember that when we were first getting going, it was really easy for us to be very switchy – half, half - about it. Because I was as much toppy with Missy as I was a bottom or a baby to her. But it's not so much like that any more, it's like 80/20 or 90/10. I'm so Little around her so often. And I honestly it's something I struggle with. I try to be the other way around or to find lovely mean people to give her the right beating she needs sometimes.

Missy: Oh, I don't really like that term, 'beating'.

Mako: Oh, I know. I'm being snarky about it. But to just give her a good spanking. I think that is an important point – it's not a beating. It goes back to this thing that Scotty had said back during the bratting show which is, 'I think that a good spanking between the person giving the spanking and the person getting it, it's kind of like this dance', right? And it's for both of them.

Missy: Yes. Because you can't dance by yourself.

Mako: Ooh, that's so good.

Spacey: Well I think that's a good point to remember and a good point to close on, actually. So how can folks get in touch with you?

Missy: Well, if they have any questions, I am on fetlife. My name on fetlife, obviously, is... It's actually a little hard to explain so you'll have to bare with me. I am a Twilight addict, in case anyone out there is listening and didn't know that. And my fetlife name is spdrmky. It's s-p-d-r-m-k-y. And you can reach me there and drop me a message, and actually I've already received a message from another Mommy out there. I wanna say she was from Wyoming? Who heard about the Littles on the podcast and contacted me. And I responded back to her today and told her if she had any questions, she could let me know. But if you wanna reach me, that's the quickest and easiest place to get me is on fetlife.

Mako: And there's tons and tons of ways to get us of course, right, brother?

Spacey: Sure. You can reach us at hosts- if you'd like to send us an email. If you'd like to go to our website, you can leave a comment on this show or any of the other shows you'd like to listen to. That website is And then we have a discussion group on fetlife – that discussion group is aptly named, 'The Big Little Podcast'.

Mako: Or you could do our absolutely favourite thing and call our voicemail line! Which is 678-421-4256. But please be sure to let us know it's okay to use your voice on the show.

Spacey: That's right. You can be cool like [?] And I think that'll do it for our show. I just wanna thank you again for listening and I hope you have a great week. Thanks!

Missy: Bye, everyone.

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