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Big Little Podcast Episode 12: Age Play and Blindness

Released May 8, 2011

Hosts: Spacey, Mako

Guests: Valentalae

Transcribed by Staub. Uncertainty in transcription is indicated with [?]

SPACEY: You’re listening to the Big Little Podcast. This is a show by, about and for age players of all kinds. We expect our audience to be mature adults, because sometimes the topics on this show are pretty adult too, just like you. If you are under 18 and looking for upfront advice and answers to questions about sex, please visit

[intro music~! ???]

SPACEY: Welcome to the Big Little Podcast, a podcast by, about and for age players of all kinds. I’m Spacey, and I’m here with my brother -

MAKO: - Mako, that’s me!

SPACEY: Hooray! And we have a special guest with us today!

VALENTALAE: That’s me, Valentalae!

SPACEY & MAKO: Oh, hey!

VALENTALAE: What’s up, people?

SPACEY: We know Valentalae from Fetlife and just found her to be such an exciting and interesting person, we had to have her on the show. As we’ve talked about before, this show is about age players of all kinds, and there really are all kinds of age players. And one thing Valentalae is going to share with us today is about her experiences with age play and visual impairment.

VALENTALAE: Is that my cue to go and say something really smart?

MAKO: Yeah, you just did.

SPACEY: Yeah, way to go, way to go.


SPACEY: So to just dive right into our topic here, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got interested in age play, and how this all rolls up for you.

VALENTALAE: Well, one of my many names is Valentalae, I’m on fetlife. I go by Donna on there. Um, let’s see… Do you wanna hear about my visual impairment, or my age play, like, which first, just whatever?

SPACEY: Well, which came first for you?

VALENTALAE: Well, the visual impairment came first, because I was born blind. [laughs] Can’t really say I was born an age player, but there you go. So, let’s see. My condition is called congenital glaucoma, I know it’s a big mouthful. I just call it blind because I’m lazy like that, and I’m not PC at all so none of you have to worry about, like, offending me by saying the B word. Either of them.

SPACEY: Which is boobies?


MAKO: I hate [bon?] It’s actually, I think it’s really creepy. I’m sorry, I just do!

SPACEY: Oh boy. We’re gonna have to have a whole show about that.

VALENTALAE: They’d probably look cute on you. Of course, I wouldn’t be able to tell, but you know.

MAKO: I’ll wear one just for you.


SPACEY: We’ll send you the photograph.

MAKO: We’re just offending people left and right.

SPACEY: You were born blind, and how about the age play?

VALENTALAE: The age play, let’s see... My interest, I believe, started when I was about 9 or 10, and it did not start with diapers or anything like that. It started actually with humiliation.

MAKO: Interesting.

VALENTALAE: It is interesting because... Let’s see how I can give an example.

SPACEY: I’m all ears. And maybe a little flushed.

VALENTALAE: [laughs]

MAKO: Brother really likes the humiliation.

VALENTALAE: Ah, nice. Well, let’s see. Anybody out there watch the Simpsons?

MAKO: Oh yeah.

VALENTALAE: You know when Bart is getting hassled by Nelson? And given a hard time, and having his pants pulled down? Well, I used to watch that and I used to be like, ‘I wonder what that would be like if that had happened to me. I think I would like that.’ And once that had took hold... Oh boy. [laughs]

SPACEY: I would think that would be easier to arrange in school, and that kind of thing.

VALENTALAE: Yeah, well. And I was like, ‘well that’s embarrassing. People are laughing, and that’s giving me good feelings that I like. And what’s the most embarrassing thing that could happen to someone? Oh, I know, what if they peed themselves?!’

SPACEY: Oh no!

VALENTALAE: What if they, y’know, what if they had to wear a diaper, because that’s, like, the most embarrassing thing you can wear...! And then that’s how that all got started.

SPACEY: [imitating Nelson from The Simpsons] Ha ha!

MAKO: [laughs] That was awesome, brother. Y’know, that’s really interesting to me. Because I think that many roads lead to the same place. Okay, there’s that whole thing about, like, there’s adult babies and there’s diaper lovers, and some are more about one thing and more about a different thing, and for a lot of people, it’s about like... that it’s regressive. And it sounds like for you, it’s more about that sense of embarrassment is what bought you to it.

VALENTALAE: Well yeah that’s true, that’s how it started. And actually, a couple of years after, after... I can’t say ‘my first experience’ because there was never really a first experience. I’d say a couple years after I sort of noticed that was going on, I actually wrote a little story and I think I might still have it. It’s horrible, I was like, what, 12 or 13 when I wrote this and I actually put a diapering scene in there. And I didn’t know anything about AB/DL or whatever, I just... I’m like, ‘huh, I wonder what this would be like’ so I put that in there and I’m like, ‘oh god, I better never...’ Of course, I wrote it in Braille, so nobody would read it anyway, but... [Mako laughs]

SPACEY: Oh man, I was gonna put it in the show notes. [Valentalae laughs] You’re gonna be published and famous. Well, as famous as the show anyway. [Valentalae laughs]

MAKO: I’m already getting ideas for stories for her.

SPACEY: So, I’m really curious. So, you found out that this sort of, this embarrassment thing was interesting to you at a fairly young age. Did you have any ties to eroticism with it at that point in time? Or was it just, you just wanted the sensation?

VALENTALAE: It was... Here’s the thing about it. I’m never really sure how far to go with this, because I was definitely underage, and this was sort of burgeoning erotic feelings. And I really don’t know how comfortable people are going to be if I talk about that. But eroticism was definitely a part of it.

SPACEY: I definitely want you to feel comfortable talking about your experiences. I mean nobody can take that away from you, whether they’re comfortable or not, frankly.

MAKO: That’s right.

V:True. I just, y’know, I don’t wanna step on anybody’s toes. Like, ‘I was doing this and this and this and this and this’.

SPACEY: Well they can fast-forward if they don’t like it.

MAKO: Right, y’know, iPods have an off button.

VALENTALAE: Fast-forward button. My voice goes really, really high, really fast- [imitates fast-forwarded tape]

SPACEY: Now, if you slow that down, what you’ll hear is...

VALENTALAE: What you have to do is, you have to put a little... track of me saying it backwards. So they have to actually turn the podcast backwards and then listen to that segment all the way. [laughs]

MAKO: I’ll get right on that. [Spacey & Mako laugh]

VALENTALAE: Wait, she says Satan lives! What is she saying?

SPACEY: Paul is dead? Anyway [laughs] is the word we’re looking for here.

MAKO: Right. [laughs]

VALENTALAE: Wait, point? What point.

SPACEY: You found out that diapers were interesting to you. At what point did you connect it with other people having an interest in this sort of thing?

VALENTALAE: Urm. You’ve gotten this a lot. I was walking through the house one day, and my Uncle was watching Jerry Springer. [laughs]

SPACEY: Man. That awful show has done a lotta good stuff for the community.

MAKO: It’s true.

VALENTALAE: Yeah, and it wasn’t- I’m not sure even which show it was. I just heard somebody in the audience saying, oh, ‘I wanna ask the diaper dude a question’. And I’m like, ‘so other people are into this!’ And at first, I didn’t even know what the ‘this’ was. I’m just like, ‘oh, I’m not the only one who’s thought about this before’. I didn’t actually learn the official terms and everything until I was about 15. And I found it in a pretty round-about way. I don’t know if you wanna hear about that...?

MAKO: Sure.

VALENTALAE: Okay, so. I guess this kind of starts off, this sort of goes from disability and ties into age play. Let’s see, I was... Let’s do a little smoke and bubbles thing. [imitates flashback noise]

MAKO: [imitates flashback noise]

SPACEY: Oh, that’s Wayne’s world.

VALENTALAE: So, I was in high school, and I had what’s called a mobility instructor. And that basically is a person who teaches someone who’s blind to, like, how to use their cane, how to navigate campuses, how to walk around the neighbourhood if they want to. It’s sort of basic travelling training, and, like, how to be safe while travelling. So I had that going on. And we were learning how to cross different kinds of intersections and streets. And I was terrified. I was absolutely freaked out and terrified. So I knew that there are people who had different kinds of phobias. And I wanted to know what the word was, for the phobia of crossing a street. So I went to Wikipedia. And I typed in, ‘list of phobias’ or something. No, no, no - I went to google and I typed in ‘list of phobias’. And it came up with this Wikipedia page of like, 13 pages of lists of different kinds of phobias. And it was like everything under the Sun from A-Z, it was insane.

SPACEY: Except crossing the street?

VALENTALAE: Oh, actually I found two for crossing the street and I don’t know how to pronounce them. There’s agyrophobia and drama... dromo... dramaphobia? I’m not sure.

SPACEY: Domo-arigato-phobia, got it.

VALENTALAE: Exactly. And from there, I found a list of philias.


VALENTALAE: Now, Mako, you know this, you’re the word nerd. Phobia is fear and philia is love.

MAKO: Absolutely.

VALENTALAE: So, I went from there, and then I found a list of paraphilias.

SPACEY: That’s when you have two of them. Wait.


VALENTALAE: Eh, close enough.

MAKO: Autonepiophilia and paraphilic infantilism, and...

VALENTALAE: Actually, well first I found infantilism and I was like ‘huh’? And then I went a little bit further down and I found a link that says ‘diaper fetishism’ and I was like ‘click click click click click click click click!’ So it was like the ‘ding ding ding’ going off over your head. [imitates that sound]

MAKO: Thank you, thank you!

SPACEY: Come on down!

VALENTALAE: And after that, I just, – everything, it was history. I just read every single thing I could. Every single story, every single forum. Just everything.

SPACEY: Very cool.

MAKO: You know I heard this... what would you say... Rumour? Common belief? About people that, when they’re visually impaired, that it makes them have like, super-human other senses. Is that true?

SPACEY: Yeah, do you have super-human taste?

VALENTALAE: [laughs] Well, for one thing, that bit of information you heard? Totally a lie.

?: Rats!

VALENTALAE: There’s like, one guy that I know of. He’s blind and he is also... He’s a mobility instructor also. He does this thing where he does a little [makes a clip-clopping sound] and he can like, tell you how big the building is and what’s inside it and what colour it is- I don’t know about the colour. [laughter] But he can give you a lot of details that you would never think that he could give you because he can’t see. But he can do it all from his hearing. He is the only one that I know of who can do that.

MAKO: Mm. So you’re not hyper-aware of people’s diaper crinkling then, either?

VALENTALAE: Not unless I’m like, listening for it? If I’m at some, like, event and I hear it, then... Yeah. I do wanna clear up this one thing. A lot of people seem to think – a lot of people write in stories, like, when they’re writing a diaper story. They write, ‘oh, I could hear her peeing in the diaper’. It’s like, um, what kind of hearing have you got going on? [laughter]

SPACEY: Well it was a really big diaper, and it was really far away from them.

MAKO: And they’d had a big gulp, right. [laughs]

VALENTALAE: [laughs] I mean, it can be done. You can hear it. Because I have heard it before. But it’s really... I mean, you gotta work for it. You gotta, like, have your ear up against their crotch. And not on the first date for me.

MAKO: That’s good for a whole other reason. [laughs]

SPACEY: I’m sure there’s a fetish for that, too. Auto-crotcha-philia or something.

VALENTALAE: [gasps!] I should put it on fetlife right now! ‘Having your ear up against someone’s crotch and listening to them pee’.

MAKO: I’m gonna make a fetish for it and I’m gonna put it in the show notes. I’m gonna do it.

VALENTALAE: And I can put, ‘but not on the first date’. No. Unless you’re into that. Y’know, whatever.

MAKO: So I’m curious. In the age play you do – what are the hot buttons you have? What really makes it sing for you? I mean, I know you talked about the humiliation. What else?

VALENTALAE: Well the main... Let’s see how I can describe this. I’m... You know how a lot of people describe themselves as sexual/non-sexual age players? Well I’m kinda both. I could really go either way.

SPACEY: I think that’s more common than most people think, by the way.

MAKO: Or are willing to admit.

VALENTALAE: That’s true. I mean, I hear a lot of it on the podcast! Like, ‘Oh, he’s sexual, he does this’ ‘no, he’s non-sexual, he’s weird because he doesn’t do this!’ It’s like, okay, well I’m both, so it’s like, y’know, I’m just versatile. Whatever.

SPACEY: It’s not weird. It’s just what it is. Some people tie in sexuality to their play. Some people don’t. And most people, even when they do, don’t do it all the time.

VALENTALAE: At this point right now, I don’t really know if I could do both at once. But I definitely like aspects of both. I really love... For me, if you really wanna get me hot, you really have to do a little version of that ‘ha ha’ thing at what I’m wearing. ‘Ha ha, you’re in a diaper, you’re a baby, blah blah blah blah’. Y’know, that. I love that.

SPACEY: We’ll have to get a special recording. Mako?

MAKO: Yeah. I can do it. [clears throat] [laughs]

[everyone waits expectantly]

MAKO: Wow, I feel on the spot now. [laughter]

SPACEY: That’s right. Well, hey, your mommy provided us with that kinda stuff on the last show. It’s your turn. You want me to?

MAKO: Yeah, you go first and I’ll follow.

VALENTALAE: You should both do it together. Both of you should, like, start laughing right now. [laughs]

SPACEY: Alright. So this is the Valentalae porn show. Oh my! You’re wearing a diaper! Only babies wear diapers.

MAKO: I can see it. That’s right.

SPACEY: That’s... You’re so not grown up. Oh my God!

MAKO: Little Miss Crinkle-Pants. I bet you smell like pee.

SPACEY: I bet you do. And powder. I bet you get a big poof, white explosion every time you sit down.

MAKO: Here, let us pat your bottom so we can make it come out of the back of it.

VALENTALAE: Oooh! [laughs]

SPACEY: Alright, and feel free to take this podcast and replay that as many times as you-

MAKO: Over and over. [laughs] That’s right.

VALENTALAE: Lube, lube, lube, lube. [whispers] Again and again and again and again.

MAKO: Wow, that was kinda good for me. [laughter]

SPACEY: Yeah, we’ll have to work that in as well. Alright! [laughs] So one of the reasons why we wanted to invite you on this show, of course, is to talk about being blind and age play-

VALENTALAE: Because you love me. No, I’m kidding.

SPACEY: We do now!

MAKO: I have to say, you have really great spelling too, and that’s like a big thing for me. It kinda turns me on. People who have linguistic precision are hot to me. And you’re really precise in the way you write.

VALENTALAE: Thank you! Is that in your fetish list? Because I think there’s a few fetishes for – it says like, ‘correct punctuation and grammar and spelling’.

SPACEY: If you really wanna get to his crotch, correctly spell ‘onomatopoeia’.

VALENTALAE: Oh god. [laughter] Yeah, y’know it just makes me look smart. It spell checks everything I say [?].

MAKO: Y’know people just don’t do it, and I don’t understand why.

VALENTALAE: It’s not really- I mean, for me it’s just me being totally OCD about what I put out online. Because whenever I, like, write something for the group or send somebody a message that’s more than like 2 lines, I like to just go hit F7 in my MS word and spell check and make sure I didn’t spell my name wrong or spell ‘diaper’ like ‘daiper’. Or spell ‘dominant’ like ‘dominate’. [Spacey laughs]

MAKO: Thank you, thank you very much. That’s my very biggest peeve. Um-

VALENTALAE: And I actually- oh, sorry, go on.

MAKO: No, it’s okay. I was just gonna be stupid and say that I guess I have a fetish for people that are like ‘grammar whizzes’ because they have good grammar and they like to whiz themselves. [Valentalae laughs]

SPACEY: This is rapidly turning into the ‘amazing [?] all about diaper show!’ But it’s not that time yet.

VALENTALAE: As long as it’s not the ‘all about daipers’ show, I’m good. You don’t know how many stories I have seen where people cannot spell the word diaper. And it’s not just diaper. It’s like... Okay, I won’t drop the name of the group, but I’m a part of a group on fetlife that has to do with humiliation. And I have seen the most ghastly, horrible, atrocious spellings of ‘humiliate’.

SPACEY: Well maybe they really wanna have that pointed out.

MAKO: Right, I was just gonna say that!


SPACEY: Maybe you need to circle that with a red pen.

VALENTALAE: ‘Into: red pen – giving/receiving’. No. I’m spoofing the fetlife fetishes.

SPACEY: Speaking of fetlife groups, one of the reasons we have you on here is we’d love for you to plug your group. Because I think it has a very interesting and important take to share with people.

VALENTALAE: Okay, well, let’s start off with a lot of how things start off in my world. I did a search on fetlife for age play and disability and nothing came up.

MAKO: Drat!

VALENTALAE: Exactly. So I decided to – and I don’t know why I decided to do this – but I decided to sort of step out of my shell and like ‘okay I’ll just make one!’ Screw it. I have nothing to lose. The world’s not gonna explode if I don’t do it right. So, I did it.

MAKO: And what’s the name of your group?

VALENTALAE: The name of the group is ‘age play with a difference’.

MAKO: Show notes!

VALENTALAE: The reason I say ‘difference’ is the word ‘disability’ for me, really... It sounds like, you take the word ‘able’ and you sort of dis it. And you turn something can do into something you can’t do and it’s not necessarily that people, quote, ‘can’t do things’. It’s, y’know...

MAKO: They just do them differently.

VALENTALAE: Exactly! People are different. So I like ‘difference’ better. But if I have to go around saying ‘oh, people with differences’, people are not gonna know what the hell I’m talking about.

SPACEY: Right. They’re gonna think it’s for people with green foreheads or something like that.

VALENTALAE: Yeah. People like that are welcome too. And I wanna stress this. It’s not a group that’s exclusively for age players and/or people with disabilities. It’s a group where those two groups can sort of come together. And learn about each other. But I mean, I’d like people who don’t necessarily fit into those categories – I’d like them to join and sort of learn and be a part of things too. Because, I mean, everyone’s different. And in that way, everyone’s the same, so...

SPACEY: [laughs] We’re all unique and special snowflakes, just like everyone else.

MAKO: Everybody else, yeah. [Valentalae laughs] I love that.

VALENTALAE: Oh my god, did I just sound smart? Oh my God, shut that up. [laughter]

SPACEY: We’ll loop that too. [laughter]

VALENTALAE: Yeah, well. You can go ahead and edit that out. [laughter]

SPACEY: That wouldn’t work as well into your fetish, I suppose.

MAKO: Yeah... [Valentalae laughs] ‘Ha ha, you’re really capable!’ [laughter]

SPACEY: So, I... One of the things that, before the show, I’d asked you about is, on that group, if you’d had any insight into other kinds of disabilities and that age players have had and how they’ve dealt with making them abilities, making them able to do those kind of things that they need to do. And I don’t know if you’ve had any particular insights from the group?

VALENTALAE: Um... Well the group’s only been around for a few weeks. So I mean... there are only like a few people that actually actively participate in discussions. And me, the super total awesome not-group leader, needs to come up with, like, more topics to talk about. And it’s like, I start this group, and all of a sudden, ‘oh, I don’t know what the hell to talk about!’ So I just like, start stuff, I don’t know where. Oh, there’s one person on there – I’m not gonna mention names or SNs or whatever – but she is, I don’t know the extent of her condition, but she’s in a wheelchair. And she actually does have, I believe, a carer or, like, attendant staff. I mean, I don’t know the extent of any of this. And she bought up something kind of interesting. She was like, when does it stop being- let’s see if I don’t butcher this... When does it stop being, quote-unquote, ‘attendant and care’ and when does it sort of become age play? Where do those two sort of... Where’s the line? Because she was like, ‘well, I already have stuff done to me. It’s like, when does the need become role play, and when does the role play become a need?’

SPACEY: That’s a really interesting question. I actually have an acquaintance of mine – I haven’t really talked to them in a long time and I feel kinda bad about that... But an acquaintance of mine that’s an adult baby and has MS. And so he has - because of the MS and the deterioration that it’s caused over time in his mobility and his ability to control anything - has had to have more and more attention. And one of the ways I think he’s dealt with that additional attention is by processing it in an age play context. So he’s really out to the caregivers that help him out, too, right. So he doesn’t just wear diapers, he wears diapers that his wife has taken and made them to look way more like baby diapers. He doesn’t just have a room, he has a room decorated like a nursery.

VALENTALAE: Can I hire her? [S&M laugh]

SPACEY: I don’t know - I’ll have to get you guys in contact. [laughter] But I think that’s interesting, because it’s not the first time that I’ve heard of somebody who’s decided to process a difficult situation by accepting it and indeed trying to make it more interesting by rolling in the age play aspect of it.

MAKO: Right, I have a good friend in Maryland[?] who’s like that, who... He was in a motorcycle accident ages and ages ago and had some nerve damage that rendered him incontinent – completely incontinent. And instead of letting it slow him down and make him feel bad about himself, he kinda turned it into a positive, where he’s got a legit excuse to go out and get those diapers. Not that you need a quote ‘legit excuse’ unquote. But he has one. And he’s really in people’s face about it. Any time anyone gives him any kind of chafe[?] whatsoever about it, he’s like, ‘I need them, so shut up’.

SPACEY: Y’know, it occurs to me that earlier, before the show, we were talking and Valentalae actually had an interesting story about having an excuse for purchasing diapers and having issues around that. Would you care to share that story?

MAKO: We all wanna hear it.

VALENTALAE: Sure. I... Everybody wants to talk about how- the whole grandma thing. [Mako laughs] Here’s how far I went. The day before, I would... Okay, I should probably go back a little bit more...

SPACEY: Do we need more of the [flashback noise]?

MAKO: Smoke and bubbles.

VALENTALAE: Well, maybe, sure. Another good skill I learnt in high school, which has nothing to do with academics of course, had to do with shopping online. And looking at diapers and baby stuff is how I did that, how I learnt how to do that. So I actually owe the whole Wikipedia, diaper fetish link to a lot of my online independence. Cause that’s how I really learned to get out there and start exploring.

SPACEY: Hooray! Age play helps!

MAKO: It does!

VALENTALAE: [whispers] It’s healthy for you. [laughs] So, what I would do... I would check out stores in my area and I would hone in on a specific one, get the address, get the hours, get the phone number. I’d get the phone number and I’d call them, the day before, or the week before, or whatever. Because I’d already seen their website, I already know they sold incontinence- quote-unquote, ‘incontinence briefs’. [laughter] ‘Cause you can’t say the D word!


VALENTALAE: No. So I’d call them, and I’d have my little voice... [imitates old lady voice] Hello? [Spacey & Mako laugh] My name is Donna. I’m 65 years old. And I gotta great- I gotta niece, and she’s blind, and she’s gonna go down there tomorrow. Do you carry... the incontinent briefs? [Spacey & Mako laugh]


VALENTALAE: [imitates store clerk] Yes, ma’am, yes we do. [as old lady] Oh, thank you kindly. I gotta send my niece out – she... she’s blind, she can’t see. Can you... Do you got people that can help her? [as store clerk] Oh yes we do. [as old lady] Thank you... [laughs]

SPACEY: Wow, do you take drama? [laughs]

VALENTALAE: No! [laughs]

SPACEY: You do that well, that’s very convincing! [laughs] I wanna go help your blind daughter! [Valentalae laughs]

MAKO: Yeah! The thing about how blind people don’t have super-senses? I think you were fibbing a little [Valentalae laughs], ‘cause you have super acting powers! [laughs]

VALENTALAE: Let’s just say I’ve been around a lot of old people! [laughs]


VALENTALAE: Not you! [Mako laughs] There are a lot of people who are, let’s just say, not young at heart.

SPACEY: Aw. Sucks to be them.

MAKO: So then like, you go out to the store, and they were like, ready there and waiting for you?

VALENTALAE: Well yeah! Well, basically, this is how a lot of stores work nowadays, at least in California, is they’ll actually have people there. Customer service representatives, who’ll actually, if you’re blind they’ll actually go around and, like, help you pick out what you have to pick out.

MAKO: That’s very cool.

SPACEY: So you go up there and you say ‘okay, here’s the diapers, and also do you have something with a bottle that might have a nipple that would fit my mouth’?

VALENTALAE: Well actually I have not been that brave just yet. I have not been to go, like, buy baby stuff. But I’ve bought the- I would go in the store and I mean, I would actually not be nervous at all. Because, hey, my aunt already called! My aunt already told them that I’m coming here. So I don’t have anything to be nervous about. They already know what I’m here for, so...! And if I wanna get some candy! And some hair gel, and... I could do that.

MAKO: It’s all good.

SPACEY: [imitating old lady] Hello, I’m 65 years old. And I wanna send my niece over to pick up a bottle. A bottle that’ll fit an adult. Do you have a bottle that’ll fit an adult? [Valentalae laughs]

VALENTALAE: Well actually no, I already looked. [laughter]

MAKO: [imitating old lady] And please remind her to get me some lube, and a big nasty dildo. [laughter]

VALENTALAE: Don’t forget the condoms and the cucumber. [laughter]

SPACEY: Make sure you’re calling the right store for that. [Mako laughs]

VALENTALAE: Those poor people at Walgreen’s. [laughter] Those poor people...

MAKO: [imitating store clerk] It’s that girl with the pervy grandmother! [laughter]

VALENTALAE: Luckily, they... This was back when I used to live in California. So hopefully none of them even remember I exist. [Mako laughs]

SPACEY: That is an amazing adaptive strategy. And if any of them’s listening to the podcast, they may know you exist now.

MAKO: Yeah.


SPACEY: But then again, they probably are interested too. [laughter]

MAKO: Right.

VALENTALAE: I actually had to get there using this ride service that a lot of... It’s called para-transit. And I actually had an experience where I was carrying my purchases and they fell outta the bag, and she had to pick them up for me... [sighs] Oh boy. [Spacey laughs] That’s kind of when the embarrassment started to seep in and, yeah...

SPACEY: Oh wait, but you like that! So that’s okay!

VALENTALAE: I do, but she was a mean- she wasn’t a mean driver, but she had this really mean sounding voice! And I really didn’t... I was not... into it.


VALENTALAE: Luckily she didn’t say anything, she was just like ‘here’. [laughs] Like, ‘thank you! Let’s go to my seat now, and be quiet...’

SPACEY: That is an interesting strategy. I have to admit, I’ve never tried anything like that. Course, nowadays, I just go and just buy them, so...

MAKO: Yeah.

VALENTALAE: I just buy them online now, I don’t even bother going to the store.

SPACEY: I mean, they don’t even have bambinos at the Walgreen’s! What’s up with that?

VALENTALAE: [snort] That’d be nice!

MAKO: Actually, I’m really curious, like, I know you said that you do a lot of online shopping. Are there adult baby retailer sites that you particularly use, that you find are really screen-reader friendly or anything like that?

VALENTALAE: Um... Let’s see. The one I use... I don’t really use a lot of quote-unquote ‘adult baby’... But that’s only because, I used this one website before, that was not an adult baby website, and I bought some- like a bottle and a sippy cup. And it was not really up to par. It did not feel authentic to me. Uh, but that was not an AB website, so... The website I use most frequently is called ‘magic medical’?

SPACEY: I’ve bought from them before.

VALENTALAE: Show notes!

MAKO: Oh! I love it when people do that! [laughter]

SPACEY: When they ship, they turn their boxes inside-out.

VALENTALAE: Um, I actually, I think that’s ABAIP. I think ABAIP does that.

SPACEY: Mm, maybe another one does that. I have bought stuff from magic medical where they have done that for me. I can’t say that...


MAKO: The one she’s talking about – it stands for ‘a better absorbent incontinent product’?

VALENTALAE: I think so.


SPACEY: Diaper store.

MAKO: Yeah! And I’ve bought from them before. They’re really super nice people.

VALENTALAE: They’re expensive though!

MAKO: Yeah.

VALENTALAE: I mean, I hear they’re really good though, but y’know... I dunno. The one I use is magic medical. I hear a lot of people raving about XP Medical? I’ve never shopped from them. But I really wanna try the new Dry 24/7, and they just started carrying those. So I wanna try those at some point.

SPACEY: So I guess the question that sort of naturally comes with that is, obviously, you’re probably less interested in whether the diaper has teddy bears on it or blocks, I’m guessing? But how important is the texture of the diaper to you?

VALENTALAE: Uh, the texture- Like, on the outside or the inside?


VALENTALAE: [laughs] Um... For me, for it to really feel real, it needs to be the plastic-y outer lining. And I’ve actually been looking all over for baby diapers as stuffers that have a plastic outer-lining and I cannot find them anywhere. And that’s not making me happy. Because it seems like everyone wants to give you [?] this cloth-covered nonsense. It’s like, I’m not putting anyone down that likes the cloth-like cover, but I can’t get into it. It feels like a pull-up, and if I’m in that mode, I don’t want a pull-up, I want a diaper.

MAKO: I understand.

SPACEY: But now I picture your aunt calling in and asking for a plastic-backed baby diaper. [laughter]

VALENTALAE: [as old lady] I’m sixty five! [laughter]

SPACEY: Boy, we’re not making friends with our 65 year old demographic on this show I think at the moment.

MAKO: It’s true. We are going to have a later show about ageism and age play, and I guess you just saw some of that, so we’re sorry.

VALENTALAE: Oh, no. I have absolutely no problem with anybody of any age- as long as you’re over 18!

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: In the United States.

VALENTALAE: Yes. Well, actually, that doesn’t really... I don’t really care. [laughter] As long as I can talk to them online or whatever. Honestly, I really don’t do Skype a lot. Which is surprising, because you probably hear... I don’t know what you hear of my people really liking to talk and talk on Skype and that’s not really... I think I sound a lot smarter when I’m doing text-based communication.

SPACEY: You have to think more over what you’re sending. But trust me, you’re doing great!

VALENTALAE: Well, because you can’t spell check over Skype. [laughter] I can’t hit spell check, spell check, spell check.

MAKO: Right. Have this robot voice come out – [imitates robot voice] ‘that is correct’.

SPACEY: The other thing I was curious about is, has having a disability made it easier or harder for you to make other age play friends in the community? Has it had any impact at all?

VALENTALAE: It ha-... Like, online, or out in the, the quote-unquote, ‘real world’?

SPACEY: All the above.

VALENTALAE: Well online, it’s a little bit difficult. I signed up for a site called diaper space. Which a lot of people have a lot of different opinions about. Which I won’t get into. The one thing I did not like was there are just tonnes and tonnes of people that ask me ‘do you have a picture? Can I see it?’ [laughter] Like - um, no!

SPACEY: ‘Let me pose in front of my web cam.’

VALENTALAE: Yeah! And it’s like- part of me’s actually battled over whether or not to mention ‘oh, by the way, I’m blind’, like right there on my profile? Part of me wants to, because I want to be honest with people. But another part of me really wants them to sort of get to know the person behind the blind.

SPACEY: And not see that as the first thing that defines you, of course.

VALENTALAE: Yeah. So I think on fetlife I did it a little bit smarter and sort of put it at the end where somebody who reads, knows what I’m talking about.

MAKO: Mhm.

SPACEY: Indeed.

MAKO: That’s how I found out.

VALENTALAE: If you look at my groups, I’m a member of a blind group on fetlife, so it’s kind of a no brainer, but... [Mako laughs] But if someone’s not reading, they’re not gonna get that! And if they send me a ‘oh, I wanna read your picture’ message, then I’m just...

SPACEY: ‘But more importantly, do you wanna see mine?’

VALENTALAE: Exactly. [laughter]

MAKO: I mean, I guess that’s a way for you to vet, how can I put this nicely? I can’t. Idiots? [Valentalae laughs] I know that there’s- one of the fetishes on fetlife is ‘sapiosexual’? Attracted to people that use their brain? And this is how you...

VALENTALAE: See, I didn’t even know what that meant.

MAKO: Yeah. From the Latin for ‘brainy people get me hot my diaper’. [Spacey laughs]

SPACEY: So along the lines of dealing with websites, one of the things I noticed you brought up on the group, and something that I’ve tried to be conscious of, is the issue with ‘captchas’ on websites?

VALENTALAE: Oh my God, don’t even get me started. [sighs] [laughs]

SPACEY: I kinda wanna get you started.

VALENTALAE: Well first of all, your websites are getting an A+ from me, because I’m able to navigate them and use them without, y’know, banging my computer against the wall in frustration.

SPACEY: Hooray.

VALENTALAE: Yeah [laughs] And that’s always a good thing. And one thing I mentioned on the group is sometimes there are alternative websites that I wanna join and I can’t! Because at the bottom of that thing it says ‘please enter the verification code’. It’s like, I can’t see the verification code! Thank you. It’s like, I’m not going to – even if I did live with people who could, y’know...

MAKO: Do that for you, right?

VALENTALAE: Well, If I lived with someone who could see, like, say, if I lived with family, I would not want them anywhere near my computer with that kind of website on! [laughs]

MAKO: Does make a lotta sense.

SPACEY: I guess there are services for that kinda thing, too?

VALENTALAE: There are. And I talk about them on the group. There’s a service – there’s two services. There’s one called web visum, which is and that works-

MAKO: Show notes!

VALENTALAE: Exactly, shownotes. It’s an add-on for the firefox browser. And basically what that does, is you go to the website- you go to the little forum where it has that, you hit a certain key combination and it will solve the captcha for you.

MAKO: Huh, that’s brilliant.

VALENTALAE: And it’s not... A lot of people... A lot of anti-spam people are kind of freaking out because, ‘oh, anyone can do that!’ No, you have to be invited to the website, you have to prove you’re human on that website. And so it’s pretty straight-forward that only human beings are gonna be registering, if they’re using web visum.

SPACEY: Honestly, from a tech point of view, I can say that captchas only slow down automation. But anybody that really wants to automate around captchas can do it pretty easily just by integrating a service like Mechanical Turk or something like that to get people to solve those problems as they come up.

VALENTALAE: Is that what that thing is called? I love that thing.

SPACEY: Yeah, Mechanical Turk is – it’s kinda like an API for getting humans to do work. It assigns little bits of work out to people to do certain things and then the people send back the results and they get paid, like, a tiny amount for doing a tiny amount of work.


SPACEY: But if you need a lot of work done, then it just starts fishing all that out to people, so...

VALENTALAE: Ah. There’s actually another way. And I don’t remember which site this was. It was probably a blind website. It had a little math problem. It had ‘please enter the answer here’.

SPACEY: But, of course, computers are really good at math, typically.

VALENTALAE: [laugh] Well. No, it was a little math problem, there was a little spelling thing. There was like ‘how do you spell cat?’ ‘How do you spell dog?’ And it’s like, if you’re human, you’re gonna...

SPACEY: I think I saw one on a furry website I joined recently. It’s like, if you’re a robot, type no. Otherwise, type yes’. [laughter]

MAKO: Y’know, there’s something that you had mentioned that I wanted to talk about. You said that you have room-mates Do your room-mates know that you’re an age player?

VALENTALAE: They do. I live with two other people and they’re both actually blinder than I am. So it really helps if I wanna wear, y’know... Wear my jeans or something over it, they don’t know. But I mean, they do know about me, so it’s not a big thing. And I count myself extremely lucky, because I mean, how many people in the world are gonna just be like ‘oh, okay’? And how many people with differences are gonna be like ‘oh okay’?! So I’m very happy.

SPACEY: I would hope more than you think.

MAKO: Yeah.

VALENTALAE: Hopefully. But I’m just glad I found a couple of them.

SPACEY: Hooray!

MAKO: That’s really great. Your room-mates know. Are there family and friends that know? Or is it a kind of a deep dark secret from them?

SPACEY: Well other than your ‘aunt’, who is sixty five years old.

VALENTALAE: Other than my aunt Donna? [laughter] My fictitious aunt Donna? [laughs] Um... There are a couple of people... I did tell my father when I was about sixteen. And thinking back on that, I mean, I know why I did it. I know why I did it. But I can’t really understand why. [laughs] I mean, ‘cause he was honest with me about a lot of things in his life. So I sort of figured, ‘okay, I owe it to him’, quote-unquote, to be honest with him about this. And the conversation was interesting. It was like, ‘well there’s something you should know about me too. There’s something I really like to wear’. And he was like ‘it’s nothing stupid like diapers, is it?’ [Spacey & Mako laugh]

MAKO: Wow.

VALENTALAE: ‘No, no, of course not! No, never! No!’

MAKO: Right. [Spacey laughs]

VALENTALAE: But he knows. He doesn’t... We don’t talk about it, and I like it that way, so...

SPACEY: Well, y’know, I think it gets back to that thing that brother was saying a couple shows ago about how... I think that people anticipate worse circumstances for taking risks than actually happen. I mean, you’re fine, right? Your world didn’t cave in.

VALENTALAE: Yeah, so far. I’m still here.

SPACEY: Hooray!

VALENTALAE: For now. [laughs]

SPACEY: Well I guess I want to ask - did you have anything else that you wanted to share on this topic?

VALENTALAE: Um, you know what? I forgot to mention one of those captcha solving websites. There’s another one. If you don’t use firefox, there’s this one that works with internet explorer. It’s called solona – it’s

MAKO: Show notes!

VALENTALAE: With the www, of course. And it’s not an add-on. What you do – and this is kind of- will probably kind of freak someone out. You hit this little key command and you take a picture of the website. Of the form, with the captcha on it. And you submit it, and there is actually a guy, there is actually a human being on the other side of that, who is gonna solve it for you. And, y’know, I have- I’ve used it several times with several different kind of freaky weirdo websites. And I have my little alternative account number and alternative name on there, so no one’s gonna know who it is. But, I mean, they don’t care! They just solve it and they sent it to you, and I mean, it’s over in a matter of, like, 30 seconds. I mean, it’s a little tiny bit more work than web visum, but if you have IE, if don’t like firefox, it’s a pretty good solution.

SPACEY: And frankly, what do you care what some anonymous person thinks of your web viewing traffic?

VALENTALAE: Exactly. My only thing is you need to make sure – and they say this on their website – if you’re gonna submit a captcha, make sure the form is empty. Because you don’t want your email address and your password and your [?]...

MAKO: Right. That’s pretty smart.

VALENTALAE: Oh, we were talking about things in my group. I actually wrote this little thing a few days ago about how I just – I don’t know if any of you saw it. But I just got done with a visit to my family, for spring break. And there’s a couple of things that were happening there. This was back in Southern California. A couple things were happening that I was thinking about over those couple of weeks. And I was like, I wonder... Okay, let me basically tell you what was happening. There was a lot of wanting to help me with things, like stairs and food. And there was one issue with my Dad. Like, he was tryin- I was trying to make a sandwich, and he was trying- ‘oh, let me do this and then you gotta do this’. And then I finally stepped away, like, ‘you know what? If you’re gonna do it, do it. I’m just gonna sit here and it’s gonna be less work for me. And this is my vacation anyway, so why not?’ To which he, huffily, like- ‘oh, well, [grumbles] you were gonna do it...’ So he just walked away. I’m like, ‘thank God for reverse psychology!’ so... [laughter]

SPACEY: Here I was thinking you were so Zen to be so calm about it. Cause I could see that being terribly frustrating.

VALENTALAE: It was frustrating. But, y’know, I really had to think around how I was gonna handle it, ‘cause I didn’t wanna yell at him, like, ‘you were supposed to let me do it! Argh!!!’ I mean, I was happy. I finally got to do it, and I got to eat in peace. And I was thinking, and I was like... First of all, I’m a real hard-ass when it comes to me and my independence. I wanna do everything myself with no help whatsoever. Especially when I’m going somewhere. If you were to, like, see me on the street, I would, y’know... I’m the biggest asshole when it comes to travelling, because if I’m trying to go somewhere, I want nothing to do with people trying to grab me and tug me and pull me around. And that does happen, quite a lot. Anybody listening – if you ever see a blind person that you think needs help: ask them first!

SPACEY: That actually should be true of any kind of person, regardless of whether you detect a disability or not.

MAKO: Yeah.

SPACEY: Ask first.

VALENTALAE: Ask first. You’re gonna get a lot nicer results if you ask first, trust me!

MAKO: I’m curious. Have you been to BDSM dungeons and play spaces?

VALENTALAE: No. I would like to at some point, but it’s one of those things where... I mean, I wanna be independent and everything, but I wanna be smart. I really don’t wanna just go to one of those by myself. And, uh... Actually there is, at our local- I don’t know if it’s a dungeon, or what it is, but there is gonna be I think a class or a discussion on... Not age play, but BDSM and disability? I would like to go and see what that’s about. But I’ve never been there, so I don’t know. [laughs]

SPACEY: I bet if you write them, they can probably get you some contact information of somebody they consider reliable that you could talk to.

VALENTALAE: Yeah, I mean, it’s tentative. It’s one of those things- it’s a couple of months away, so I still have some time to decide.

MAKO: I know for a fact that here in Washington DC– not that that helps you [laughter] Sorry.

VALENTALAE: [sarcastically] Yeah, thanks, Mako.

MAKO: Yeah, y’know, lookin’ out for ya! That there’s a local BDSM organisation – really great – called Black Rose. Show notes!

SPACEY: Indeed. That’s where my teddy bear buddy has his leather title.

MAKO: That’s right! And I know people that teach classes for them. I actually used to date one of them, who is an expert on kink and disability. And on a fairly regular basis they have classes about it and talk about it and do some advocacy for it. And I bet if I ask my buddy, that she could probably tell me some resources for other groups like that around the country. And I’ll see what I can cook up and put it in the show notes!

VALENTALAE: Yeah I think that- sorry, sorry, were you going to...

SPACEY: I was just saying that we really gotta get the show notes minions working on this one.

VALENTALAE: Well this one’s gonna be a huge one ‘cause I actually just thought of- not only is there this class going on in San Francisco, there is – it’s not necessarily a kink thing, but it’s sexuality and disability? They just started having regular meetings on that in Berkeley, California. And the person who is in charge of that is on fetlife. And I’m a genius and I forgot his username. But I mean if I... I could find it. It’s not really that hard to find.

MAKO: I’m glad you bring it up. Because one of the other things that I wanna say to folks is this is the first of a whole series of podcasts that we’re gonna do on age play and disability. We’re gonna talk to a bunch of folks.


MAKO: So don’t feel like it all has to be shoe horned in here.

VALENTALAE: Deaf people, deaf people, deaf people! [claps]

MAKO: Yeah! Well, that would be interesting. I’m not sure how we would do that.

VALENTALAE: I’ll interpret! No. [laughs]

MAKO: Actually, it was funny because she was telling us some sign language stuff before we got started. Which is fascinating to me that you have an interest in that.

SPACEY: I bet you that some of our listeners would love it if you could describe the American Sign Language sign for ‘diaper’.

VALENTALAE: Oh yeahh...! Well, let’s... This is the one I learned. I’m sure there’s probably scads of different signs for it. Because that’s just how ASL works. There’s a different sign for everything and for everything there’s a different sign for that, too. Basically, what you do is you take your hands and you... Let’s see, how do I describe this? Basically mime like you’re either taping or pinning on a diaper. You do like, little, one tape on the top and one tape on the bottom. You’re using both hands on both sides of your waist. I cannot believe I’m actually standing up and doing this right now. [Mako laughs]

SPACEY: Well, it looks great.

VALENTALAE: You sort of do this like one-two motion, like, above and below, and there you are. I mean, that’s the one I learnt online, so...

MAKO: That’s really interesting to me.

VALENTALAE: I should find some video of it.

MAKO: Especially because, in my experience, when you go to put on a disposable diaper you should do the bottom tapes first so it’s not all saggy. So that must be the sign for ‘saggy diaper’.

VALENTALAE: [laughs] Well yeah, either way, I’m sure... People are gonna know what you’re talking about when you sign that.

SPACEY: A lot of baby diapers don’t need two sets of tapes, brother.

MAKO: Oh, that’s true.

VALENTALAE: You could always do that one tape to the – what is it, AB universe? I think they have little one tape ones.

SPACEY: I think I’ll have to get that one tape being duck tape.

MAKO: Right. [laughs]

VALENTALAE: You can sign, like, rolling the duck tape thing around your- [phone goes off]

MAKO: How did you develop your interest in ASL?

VALENTALAE: Oh my God, long story. That sorta started... Um... I was, like, 14. And I took this community college class. I don’t know how I was able to, ‘cause I was still in high school. Somehow I was able to take the Saturday class and I just– with my real aunt. [S & M laugh]

SPACEY: Not your fictitious one?

VALENTALAE: Not the Donna the mystery aunt that doesn’t exist. And I actually really liked it. I found out that, like, ‘oh my god’. I can’t see and even I can do this. This is so weird and cool and I love it and I wanna keep doing it and... Yeah. Eh, it makes me happy! It makes my Little happy, too, so... [laughs]

MAKO: I have an interest in it too.

SPACEY: Being happy and Littles being happy – that’s a good place to wrap up this part of the show.

MAKO: Yeah.

SPACEY: One thing I did wanna address is that we got another caller to the voice mail.

MAKO: Time for the fireworks. Aah, tschh!

SPACEY: I’m always very excited about that. Hooray! [Mako laughs] Please feel free to celebrate, too, Valentalae, we don’t mind.

VALENTALAE: Are you gonna do the freak bomb in celebration? [laughter]

SPACEY: Indeed. Freak bomb it up!

MAKO: [long sound of something falling] ... ... ... Freak! [laughter]

VALENTALAE: Super freak.

SPACEY: [sings] Super freaky now!

VALENTALAE: Super total awesome freak. [laughter]

MAKO: I really like it a lot. [laughs]

VALENTALAE: Really a lot.

SPACEY: Now without further ado, and with much excitement and with much anticipation, let’s hear the voicemail!

Z?: Hello, my name is Zeek[?] and yes, you may use this on the air. As a matter of fact, I hope you do. I have a question for you and it stems off of something that an age play friend said the other day in a conversation I was having with them. This question has so many layers you would have to peel it like a banana. Probably has more levels than any in-depth video game. It has so many factors, you would have to personalise it, and personalise your answer based on each individual situation. So therefore it should be relatively simple to answer, right? Now I’ve spoken with a lot of folks in the time that I’ve found age play online, but what this friend said to me the other day, this comment that he made, has remained with me. I literally go to sleep thinking about it, probably dream about it, and I wake up still thinking about it. And throughout the day it’s on my mind. I just finished listening to episode 10 and just immediately finished listening to episode 9 and I thought I would call you folks and ask you the question.

Z: What the friend said to me was that a natural parent and child relationship is destined to either end or at least change dramatically from its origin. Nowadays as adults we all have relationships with our parents but they’re not the same relationships that we had with them when we were children. And I suppose it stands to reason that they’re not supposed to be. But if a natural parent-child relationship is destined to end, or at least change dramatically from its origin, is it possible for an age play relationship - one that includes a big and a little, a parent and child, a care giver and a care receiver - is it possible for an age play relationship to be life-long and everlasting? Or does it also have an end? And if the answer is yes, then how so? If we are able to make an age play relationship last forever, how do you do that given the factors of the natural parent and child relationship? Alright, thank you very much!

SPACEY: Alright, well thank you Zeek! I really, really, appreciate you giving the voicemail line a call and giving us another reason to party and celebrate, and to hear from you!

MAKO: You’re easily one of the two best callers we’ve ever had.

SPACEY: Indeed. And because we have a special guest, y’know I have an answer for this and I suspect-

MAKO: As do I.

SPACEY: I suspect brother has an answer, exactly. But we didn’t prepare Valentalae for this question, and so I’d like to see if she has an answer.

VALENTALAE: Well, uh... All relationships are gonna change, no matter what you do, I think. I mean, whether kinky or vanilla, everybody changes so therefore each relationship is gonna change too. Um... This is something I’ve actually never thought about before. And he’s really- whoever his friend is, he’s really insightful for bringing this up. Because I mean, it’s not something a lot of people talk about. A lot of people talk about, ‘oh, I want my mommy to just hug me and love me and change my diaper forever and ever’. But we never really think about what... We never consider the ‘and then’ part. As someone very smart once pointed out on the Big Little podcast a few shows ago.

SPACEY: And the people on ‘dude where’s my car?’.

MAKO: Right. [laughs]

VALENTALAE: Yes, I love that movie! Oh my god I love that movie. It’s one of my favourite movies- and I hate movies, and it’s my favourite movie. So anyway, I think it’s definitely gonna change... As far as ending? I mean, there are people who are... Who have stayed together in relationships for their entire lives, so I think it’s possible that it could be forever. But I mean, I think it really depends on... It really depends on who the people are. I think it really depends on, do they know what they’ve signed up for? And are they willing to go through whatever changes that they’re gonna go through together? And are they gonna be willing and able to accept and handle and ride the waves together? And if they are, then yeah, I think that it is possible for it to be a lifelong thing.

SPACEY: Well if I may...

MAKO: Please, brother.

SPACEY: [applauds] That was a great answer.

MAKO: Yeah, thumbs up.

VALENTALAE: Now stay tuned for the experts.

SPACEY: So - the first thing that just came to my mind straight up... And it kind of... I don’t wanna say that it disrespects the question, but it kinda does. And that is that I don’t see any reason that a natural parent-child relationship has to have any bearing on an adult relationship that also involves age play.

MAKO: It’s a common mistake. We’re not kids.

SPACEY: The fact is, if an age player can choose to be a different age, then they can also choose their relationships to be at that age or at that period of time without necessarily having to grow up. I think it’s important- really, what Valentalae said, and that’s something I wanna hit, and that’s again all people change. All relationships change. It’s important to consider that all relationships are going to have an end. Whether that end is, y’know, seeing it through to the end of your life, or that end is seeing it through until one or the other of you changes so much that that relationship doesn’t make sense any more But all relationships are going to end. So... that doesn’t necessarily mean that because a, quote, ‘natural parent-child relationship has a certain progression’, that your age play relationship power has to follow the same progression.

MAKO: Yeah. I wanna add to that. Something that I’ve heard brother say before about when people ask him - when he’s Little - how old he is, he’ll say, ‘I’m some many’.

SPACEY: I’m some many.

MAKO: Right. I have a range of ages sort of. Sometimes I’m 3 and sometimes I’m 5 and sometimes I’m 40. And I don’t know too many 5 year olds that can read college level literature or drive a car. But sometimes I am one of them. I think people mistake sort of the accessories, the attachments, the things on the menu that we’re ordering- I have to have a food metaphor in here somewhere.

VALENTALAE: This is the food metaphor.

MAKO: That’s right.

SPACEY: I know Zeek was kind enough to provide the metaphor related to bananas and onions, at least.

MAKO: Yeah, thanks Zeek! Someone’s always gotta do it. Just because we eat the banana, or the banana pudding, or the banana baby food, it doesn’t mean that we’re babies! It also doesn’t mean that we can’t have it every single day if we want to. Yet on the other hand, there are just factors you can’t control. Everybody gets older. Everybody has life changes. Everybody tries new foods, goes new places. It just happens. Change sneaks up on you, one little change at a time. And I think that the question isn’t ‘can I have this thing and have it forever?’ Well, you can’t step in the same river twice. So no, you can’t have the same Thursday over and over again. Unless you’re Bill Murray in that one particular movie.

SPACEY: And then you probably don’t want it.

MAKO: That’s right. But you can certainly find the things that work great for you and keep doing them!

SPACEY: And most importantly, appreciate them while you have them.

MAKO: Have them. Which - I think that’s the answer.

VALENTALAE: Well said, well said.

SPACEY: I guess there was one other point I wanted to make on that, but now I can’t remember.

MAKO: Don’t think of a pink elephant, it’ll come back to you.

SPACEY: Yeah, that’s right. Or bananas or banana baby food.

VALENTALAE: Pink elephant shaped bananas.

MAKO: Your aunt really likes those, right?

VALENTALAE: Oh yeah, my Aunt Donna loves those. [laughter]

SPACEY: Must have had a hard time calling the store for those.

VALENTALAE: [as old lady] I eat ‘em every day.

SPACEY: [as old lady] Doctor says I have ta have ‘em twice a week. [laughter]

MAKO: [slightly hysterical laughter] This is killing me! [sounds of him cry-laughing]

SPACEY: Oh my. But again, thank you Zeek. I think it’s an excellent question. Oh, the other point that I wanted to make is it’s also not impossible that people entering into this kind of relationship might actually negotiate to have a progression and might negotiate to have it come to its – you might say - natural end. Certainly, there are master-slave relationships where, in the BDSM world, where people have agreed to train, to learn certain skills, to learn [the] master-slave relationship to a point, and then are ready to move on. And there’s no reason that age players, that people negotiating a relationship for themselves involving age play, couldn’t also negotiate something similar.

MAKO: Oh yeah! And there’s a point I wanna add to this too. Michael Palin, you know, the Monty Python guy? He wrote this book about successful marriage, which is crazy because he’s been married, like, 8 times! I think it’s Michael Palin, it might be John Cleese.

SPACEY: It’s John Cleese.

MAKO: Is it John Cleese?

SPACEY: I had an interview with him not long ago.

MAKO: Right, right. And someone said to him- they were like, ‘John! You’ve got a big set of stones to sit here and talk about successful marriage – you had eight of them!’ And his point was, he said ‘no, no. Each one of them was successful! I got into my relationship, I had a purpose for what I was gonna do. We either raised some children, or I learned some new thing, or I had company through a period of my life. And then we parted company amicably and well’. So, I mean, I wouldn’t fear change. It’s gonna happen anyway. Surf it!

VALENTALAE: Life is like a train. You’re either gonna let it hit you or hop on or let it pass you by. I was talking about the whole thing with the sandwich incident? And I actually wrote about this on the group. And I was like... I am... y’know, the biggest butt when it comes to doing stuff independently. And it’s like, well, if I’m gonna be in some sort of age play relationship with somebody, and I want them to take care of me, it’s like... When will I stop just wanting so fiercely to do things for myself? When will I be able to, like, let go and just be in the moment and be the baby and let them do things? And I was thinking about this and I was like, well, first of all, I’m gonna have to be smart enough to not get into something with somebody who’s first line in a message is ‘I wanna see your pic!’ [S & M laugh] And I mean, the only advice that I could really come up for myself, and anybody else who happens to have any other kind of difference or a disability who is listening to this, is just basically, use your head. You can tell when they want to take care of you in an age play context, or when they think you can’t do something and they wanna do it for you. I mean, I personally need to make sure I know the difference.

MAKO: Right, there’s a big difference between, like, consensually agreeing to turn over the power to someone and be nurtured, versus some smothering doofus that doesn’t know to treat you like a normal human being.

VALENTALAE: Exactly. It’s like... I like this term, I get it a lot, I get a lot of what I like to call ‘non-consensual age play’ where I get a lot of people on the street who call me sweetie and honey and baby, and it’s like ‘you don’t know who the hell I am, get away from me!’ [laughter]

SPACEY: See, I like being called all those things! Aw!

VALENTALAE: Well yeah, but hopefully by people who are not just on the street out of nowhere. [laughs]

SPACEY: Yeah. I get it a lot in diners for some reason.

MAKO: I have actually a strategy for you as a way to sort of fight back against that. Just a suggestion on my part.


MAKO: So I have a thing that similarly annoys me. It’s the... You know when you dial 411 to get information and you get that automated helper? Y’know: ‘tell me the city and state, thank you!’ Well I go out of my way to do this whenever I use it – you know what I’m gonna tell you, brother, right?


MAKO: No, what I’ll do is I’ll... They’ll say ‘city and state’, and I’ll say... ‘Smithtown, Virginia - you spiny blowfish!’ [Valentalae laughs] And then they’ll say ‘thank you!’ [Valentalae laughs] and I’ll say ‘oh, you like being called a spiny blowfish? Well, spiny blowfish, then get me the number of the hardware store!’

VALENTALAE: [laughs] Watch it, like, be a real person, and then you hear, like, ‘what?!’

MAKO: Well that’s what happens! Because it then tries to parse [?] that and it just kinda blows up. And it’s clearly delivering the recordings to a human being, and the reaction I usually get is like ‘pfht- what?! Okay!’ [Spacey laughs] And they’re very... They don’t know what to do, and I’ve injected a little chaos into their day, and I think it’s just funny.

SPACEY: Totally reminds me of that Seinfield episode where Kramer decided he was gonna replace moviephone. [M & V laugh] And it’s like, ‘if you’d like to see Star Wars, press 1! If you’d like to see Dragnet, press 2! Why don’t you just tell me the name of the movie that you wanna see?!’ [V & M laugh]

VALENTALAE: What if technology finally caught up with them? Because I think the aim of the game is now to tell exactly what you want. You don’t- they don’t let you press the numbers, it’s like ‘please tell us what you want to do...’

SPACEY: Which I actually find infuriating because a lot of times they don’t get it right.

MAKO: Yeah, iPhones are really bad at that too.

VALENTALAE: ‘I wanna screw you up a tree!’ [S & M laugh] [as response system] ‘Thank you! Please hold!’ [laughs]

MAKO: That’s a common problem for spiny blowfish.

VALENTALAE: ‘One moment please’.

SPACEY: So when you’re done with your spiny blowfish. Valentalae - how can people get in touch with you?

VALENTALAE: Um, well... See the best way I would probably say is on fetlife. I have a ridiculously long screen name which I will spell for you. [coughs] Let me clear my throat and roll up my sleeves for this one. It’s V-a-l-e-n-t-a-l-a-e. It’s pronounced Val-en-tah-lee.

SPACEY: Ah. I’ve been getting it wrong.

VALENTALAE: Oh, I didn’t even notice.

SPACEY: I’ve said Val-en-tah-lay.

VALENTALAE: See, my hearing sucks. [Spacey laughs] I told you. It’s all a misconception. I can’t hear a damn thing. So that’s, once again, V-A-L-E-N-T-A-L-A-E and, uh, if that doesn’t work, I have an email address which is and uh... Check out my group!

SPACEY: Yeah! Age Play with a Difference, on fetlife.

VALENTALAE: Age Play with a Difference.

MAKO: Show notes! [laughs]

VALENTALAE: You don’t necessarily have to be an age player or have any differences, just come on in and par-tay.

SPACEY: Everyone’s a little bit different, as you said. As you said.

VALENTALAE: [sings] ‘Everyone’s a little bit different!’ Sorry, I’m getting-

SPACEY: [sings] ‘Sometimes!’ Oh yeah.

VALENTALAE: My Avenue Q mode. Let’s not go there.

SPACEY: Oh, I love that play. It’s so good. Give it a chance. If you haven’t seen it, go see it. It rocks.

VALENTALAE: Show notes!

MAKO: I love that! I wanna plan a trip actually to New York for that. For age players. But not 10 thousand people. Just like maybe 50.

SPACEY: So if you wanna contact brother and I. Especially if you wanna talk to him about going to see Avenue Q in New York. I’m pretty sure-

VALENTALAE: Which I so will.

SPACEY: He might not be ready for it just yet. But if you’d like to tell us both about it you can send us an email. The email address is We have a website where we post our shows - we might be listening to it there now - that you can also leave comments on. And that website is We have a group on fetlife called The Big Little Podcast. And if you wanna be cool like Zeek and babydemon from this episode and previous episodes... Well, I think my brother will tell you how to be cool like that.

MAKO: You can call us on our voicemail line. Which is 678-421-4256. But if you call, please be sure to let us know that it’s okay to use your voice on the show.

SPACEY: [as response system] ‘Why don’t you just tell me the comment that you wanna leave?!’ [laughter]

VALENTALAE: How about this, I’ll let my aunt call you? [Mako laughs]

MAKO: I want that!

SPACEY: Perfect. Y’know, we would love to hear from her.

MAKO: [as old lady] My niece told me about your podcast! [laughter]

SPACEY: And on that note, thanks so much for listening.

VALENTALAE: Thanks people!

MAKO: Good bye.


[outro music~! ???]

[dialing tone and old-school phone dialing noise]

?: Hello.

(clip from earlier in the show)

D: [as old lady] My name is Donna! I’m 65 years old! And I gotta great- I gotta niece, and she’s blind, and she’s gonna go down there tomorrow. Do you carry... the incontinent briefs?