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Big Little Podcast Episode 3: Regression, BDSM Events

Released March 2, 2011

Hosts: Spacey, Mako

Guests: Peanut

Transcribed by Valentalae.

SPACEY: You’re listening to the Big Little Podcast, a show by, about and for ageplayers of all kinds. Just like the subjects of our show, we expect our audience to be mature adults. If you are under 18 and looking for upfront advice and answers to questions about sex, please visit

Intro music

SPACEY: You’re listening to the big little podcast, a show by, about and for ageplayers of all kinds. I’m Spacey, and I’m here with my brother.

MAKO: Mako, that’s me! And we’re here with our friend…

SPACEY: Drum roll…

PEANUT: Peanut!


MAKO: Hooray!

PEANUT: That’s me!

SPACEY: Today we got a number of topics, we’re not just doing a specific show. And I think I wanna start off this show with a story. You guys mind listening to a story?


MAKO: I love stories.

SPACEY: Alright. So, let’s see, it was 1996 I think. I remember I had the house to myself, I had the TV on, I had some toys that I was playing with. I was diapered up and being the adult baby, that was like ultimate bliss. And I was just enjoying the sensations. I was also playing under this big blanket. And I was having a great time, and then there was this horrendous, awful noise.

MAKO: (Laugh) I know this story!

SPACEY: And you know what? It happened again. And I was like, “I think I should know what that is.” And then it happened again! And I jump up and I run to the phone, “Hello!?”

MPEANUT: (Laugh)

SPACEY: It was the phone ringing! And while I was laying, while I was in that mode, I really didn’t know what that sound was at first, and it took a while for the rest of my brain to kick in and say, “Hey! That really annoying sound has significance and meaning, and you should do something about that.”

MAKO: (Laugh) That’s cuz you, Brother, were regressed.

SPACEY: Indeed. So that’s our topic for the show today is regression.

PEANUT: Wow, excellent lead in.

MAKO: Uh huh. Wow. You know, I’ll tell you one of the reasons why Brother and I, and actually come to think of it Peanut and I, are as close as we are is because, we’re all in that same class of adult babies, or ageplayers who regress. I remember when I first met Brother and we were talking about it, I had almost exactly that same story that would happen to me. People would call me in my house and I’m always out of breath, “Were you like, exercising or something?” “Or something.”

SPACEY: Well that’s what happens when you really only get half a ring left to answer the phone.

MAKO: Right, and it’s all the way across the house. (Laugh)

SPACEY: yeah, regression is an interesting thing because I think different people experience it in different ways. It sounds like Brother and I have a very similar experience. I’d be curious, Peanut, do you have anything like that that you’ve experienced?

PEANUT: You know I was thinking about trying… There are certain things that just surprise me like, I have my tongue pierced. And when I’m little, there’re many times where I’m like, “What is this thing in my mouth?!” Spacey and MAKO: (Laugh) Peanut: And I’ve had this for ten years so, it’s not anything new.

MAKO: Right.

PEANUT: I just can’t remember what it is.

SPACEY: Have you considered some maybe some grape flavored or cherry flavored tongue piercings? (Laughter)

MAKO: So it’s not, I would say…

PEANUT: Like a lollypop tongue ring, oh my God that’d be amazing.

SPACEY: Exactly.

MAKO: Oh that’d be amazing. But it’s not like a degree thing right? Because, Peanut says all the time how when she’s little, she’s seven and three quarters, not one of us stinkin diaper wearin babies. But I don’t think that you have to be all the way an infant when you’re regressed to experience regression.

PEANUT: Well no, I mean, I like how you explain it. It’s a dimmer switch. For me, I experience a level of being little almost all the time.

MAKO: Yeah.

PEANUT: And part of that is just my personality. I’m very child-like and this is how I see the world. And because I live with my daddy I get to be little anytime I want.

SPACEY: Hooray!

PEANUT: So for me the regression is sort of an ongoing, I mean it’s just always there.

MAKO: It’s natural and organic for you.

PEANUT: Very much.

MAKO: I would say that that’s true for me too, that even when I’m at my absolute biggest, my little’s just kinda waiting around to pop into the scene. It is like, how much Kool-aid and how much water is in your glass. My friend Del, he says this really smart thing too about regression. Well, first off, let me toss a big fancy word in the mix. Regression is dissociative. Kind of like having multiple personalities a little bit, which is not like a scary, bad mental sickness thing. It’s very natural to be dissociated, people do it all the time. There’s this thing called…

SPACEY: Yeah, I think going to work can be dissociative. That professional persona that you put on to go to work can be dissociative.

MAKO: Oh yeah. And there’s this other thing that everybody does, kinky or not, called highway hypnosis. Where you’ll be driving late and night…

PEANUT: Oh yes! Totally!

MAKO: And suddenly you’re home and you don’t know how you got there. It’s because your robobrain took over and brought you home.

PEANUT: Yeah, it’s definitely a state of hypnosis. The white lines are very mesmerizing.

MAKO: For sure. So, this smart thing that Del says about…

SPACEY: Which is why you should be listening to this podcast in your car.

MAKO: That’s right.

PEANUT: (Laughs)

MAKO: Your iPod is getting very heavy. No anyway. (Laughter)

MAKO: So the…

SPACEY: Send us candy! (Laughter)

MAKO: Right now. Change my diaper. No anyway, the thing that Del…

PEANUT: I wanna pony! (Laughter)

MAKO: We’re gonna have really bad focus problems today, I can already tell. The thing…

PEANUT: Isn’t that why we’re calling this show Ooh, Shiny Ball?

MAKO: That’s right. The thing that Del says when you have alters like that, is that imagine that there’s this school bus, right? And your little is a passenger on the bus, and your big is a passenger on the bus, and you’re both of them, but you’re also the driver and you’re also the bus.

PEANUT: I don’t get it.


SPACEY: It’s deep.

MAKO: It is kinda deep. Well, it’s kinda like meta or something. I’ll talk all the time about how like, “Well my big is like this…”


MAKO: “And my little’s like that.” But when you say, “Well my big is like this,” who are you?


MAKO: You’re the bus.

PEANUT: Right. I definitely refer to Little Heather and Big Heather as if sometimes they’re two different people with two different personalities.

SPACEY: Right.

PEANUT: In some ways they are. They’re very distinguishable, especially for anyone who knows me.

MAKO: Oh yeah, Brother’s even more complicated. Let’s see, there’s Big Spacey, there’s Little Spacey, there’s Angelica, there’s your puppy…

SPACEY: And there’s Older Age Angelica.

MAKO: Right

PEANUT: Oh my God.

MAKO: Which sounds like a Barbie accessory, “New Older Age Angelica!”


PEANUT: I’d play with that.


MAKO: I have!

PEANUT: (Laugh)

SPACEY: Now with extra frilly panties!

MAKO: Mmmm…


MAKO: And masculine pink bow.

PEANUT: Ooh, fancy!

SPACEY: Indeed. The masculine pink bow, that is very popular.

MAKO: I love it.

SPACEY: It’s actually a masculine blue bow I will have you know.

MAKO: Oh. I have a question for you guys. So, do your littles, when you’re regressed, do you experience sensation differently and are your intellectual capabilities different?

SPACEY: Well I know that you and I had talked about how we’ve experience the way things taste differently depending on how deep into regression we are.

MAKO: Oh yes.

PEANUT: For me, everything is more intensified. It just tastes better! It tastes bigger! It’s more exciting! I can’t wait another second!

MAKO: (Laugh) Right. Oh God…

PEANUT: For one more exciting thing to happen!

MAKO: Oh and your sense of time, right? Like, five minutes when you’re little is like eight years.

PEANUT: Millions!

MAKO: (Laugh)

SPACEY: Go spend five minutes in the corner…



MAKO: So true.

PEANUT: I’m a good girl, I don’t get sent to the corner.

MAKO: I’m afraid I spend more time in the corner than I’d like to admit.

SPACEY: Yeah, I’m the goodie-goodie of the Ghidrah thankfully.

MAKO: Mostly it’s forgetfulness for me, and that’s a thing. When I’m big I’m kind of scatter-brained, but when I’m little, I’m completely scatter-brained! I can’t hold onto a thought for more than a second.

PEANUT: I know what you mean.

SPACEY: It’s gonna be a challenge for the show.


MAKO: It’s funny because Kacie asked me yesterday, we were hanging out just sort of relaxing at one point, and I had gotten really little. And she asked me afterward or maybe as I was coming out of it, if I could ever or would ever be little on this show. And, I don’t know.

SPACEY: I suspect there’ll be different levels of it. I think, we just had that moment a little while ago, not to be meta about what we just did…


SPACEY: But we had that little moment about “Send us candy,” and “Change our diaper,” and “I wanna pony.”

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: Which was kind of a little moment.

MAKO: There was kind of like a Spaceballs thing right? Is this the now now?


SPACEY: You’re watching now now! I mean for the most part we’re meta here, so I’d say that when we’re considering the topic of ageplay right? So I would say that we’re gonna be more adult about it. You probably won’t hear a lot of baby talk about age play.

MAKO: And thank God for that!

PEANUT: Oh my God, don’t even get me started! Puh-lease!


SPACEY: Well, I’m perfectly happy that there are folks out there that enjoy baby talk just, don’t expect me to read it.

MAKO: Right. Well to me…

PEANUT: Well who can read it? It makes no sense!

MAKO: It’s a context thing right? Like if you’re trying to tell someone that you really love them, it’s ok to be like, “I wub you. But if you’re trying to tell them that their baked lasagna in the microwave is on fire, you wouldn’t be like, “Yo bayg bahn duh is fiyuh!”

SPACEY: (Laugh)

MAKO: The only response to that is…

PEANUT: (Sings) Fi-yuh!

MAKO: “I’m going to slap you until you leave!” (Laugh)

SPACEY: That sounds more like a Bill Cosby impression or something.

MAKO: Right, the dentist.

PEANUT: Yes, it’s like a “weal twue subbie.”


MAKO: God!

PEANUT: Or a “Dominate.” (Laugh)

MAKO: Arrrgh!

SPACEY: Awww, you just hit a…

MAKO: That is a huge pet peeve!

SPACEY: Way to hit a button for Mako on the show.


MAKO: All we need now is for Sister to be on and for someone to say “Nucular,” And then we could just all vomit.


PEANUT: (Sarcastically) That sounds like fun. Thanks for inviting me here, just to vomit.


MAKO: Sorry. Well ya know, we’re keepin it real here on the Big Little Podcast.

SPACEY: Indeed.

MAKO: What the hell does that mean anyway?

PEANUT: Oh my God my daddy just brought me a biscuit!

MAKO: Oh yay!

SPACEY: Is that a euphemism for something?

MAKO: (Laugh)

PEANUT: No it’s a delicious warm biscuit out of the oven.

SPACEY: Oh ok. That sounds pretty nice.


SPACEY: Does he have one for everybody?

MAKO: Yeah I’d like your daddy’s biscuit for me too.

PEANUT: (Laugh) He brought me a biscuit cuz I’m the princess. He brought it to me on a princess plate also.

SPACEY: Ah. Don’t tell me there’s no regression on this show. This is regression on this show!


MAKO: Yeah a little bit I think so.

PEANUT: Ha ha, flaky layers…

SPACEY: Just like the people on this show.


PEANUT: I’m like an ogre, I have a layer of onion.

MAKO: Alright, I’m gonna focus in a little. ((Snort)

PEANUT: (Snort giggle)

SPACEY: I’d like to bring it back to the topic of regression a little bit.

MAKO: Yeah. I know when I regress one of the things that happens to me a lot is… There’s sort of this extra layer of cognition happening. I might wanna say something to either of my mommies or someone else about something that’s going on or something I feel or some complicated concept, but even though I know in the back of my head what the big word I’m trying to say is, I can’t pull it forward. I can’t speak it or pronounce it, it’s too complicated, I’ll mispronounce it. I stumble over words. Oh I have a great example actually of this! So, just last…

SPACEY: Fun during Scrabble I’m sure.

MAKO: Uuugh! That’s the only way, well it’s not the only way but it’s a really good way to beat me at Scrabble. It’s like a Kryptonite thing for me. If you get me regressed during Scrabble I’m useless.

SPACEY: Oh I better tell my wife’s …??? About that.

MAKO: No no!

SPACEY: (Laugh)

MAKO: Well actually I prefer you don’t cuz that’d be a tiny bit creepy!

SPACEY: Yeah come to think of it…


MAKO: But so, last night the three of us are having dinner and we’re talking about our new house. We’re in the process of getting ready to find a new place to live.


MAKO: In a couple of months. And we’re sort of talking about some of the things that we would want. And I was diapered and all little last night for dinner because I was tired and needed a rest. And, during dinner we’re talking about this and I’m slowly getting more and more regressed. Kacie says this thing about how, in our new house, it’d be really great if we had a pantry.

PEANUT: (Giggles)

MAKO: Ya know, to keep cans in. And my little…

SPACEY: (Laughs)

MAKO: He’s very opinionated about words.

PEANUT: “Panty.”

MAKO: No no, and so…

SPACEY: That’s where my head went.

MAKO: Yeah yeah. I guess I have a reputation or something but…

SPACEY: People need panties to keep their cans in, of course they do.


MAKO: Well no… So what I said was, I said that “That’s the wrong word. If it’s for cans, it’s a cantree,” and that it must be a cantree. So then we spent a good half an hour having this really weird literal argument, my little and her, about whether it’s “cantree” or “pantry.” And how if it’s a cantree, that it must be this tree that you keep cans on, and you could have like, cans of ice cream on it, which would be like, a great idea right? But a pantry, that’d be just for pans. And then she’s like “Let me ask the internet.” And she pulls out her phone… Well, first she pretends to be the internet and she talks into the side of her hand and she’s like, “I’m the internet and I say…”

(Loud laughter)

MAKO: And I’m like, “No, you can’t be the pretend internet. You have to go ask it for real.” So then she pulls her phone out, and I’m like, “Ok internet, what’s the answer?”


SPACEY: Alrighty then.

MAKO: And, talking about it now, I understand that my little was completely ridiculous and very literal and mishearing things, but there’s a small part of me that still thinks that that’s right!

SPACEY: I think it’s a funny thing too because I bet a part of you does that because it’s entertaining and fun to go there, and then a part of you is just like, ‘Let’s run with it, I’m feeling little.”

MAKO: Yeah. It’s very strange. There are times when that happens kind of against my better judgment or will, because I don’t want to always mishear words or missay things, because I think it makes us come off as sounding retarded or stupid…

SPACEY: Awwwwww come on now.

MAKO: And I’m smarter than that, frankly.

PEANUT: Retarded is not a nice word.

MAKO: I know. It’s a terrible word and I don’t mean to use it.

SPACEY: right. And I do feel that this is maybe where we’re a little same-separate, but I know that language and communication are very very important to you.

MAKO: Oh yeah.

SPACEY: But, also consider that there are some people who don’t maybe have that level of connection with it, and find that kind of thing fun. And if it works with the people they interact with and those people are willing to buy into that, then that’s awesome, let them do that.

MAKO: Oh and don’t get me wrong. Most of the time I’m totally cool with it and I think it’s really funny. And a lot of times these things, they’ll like… It’s weird because, this is one of those dissociative things. It took me a long time to wrap my head around the fact that it really is dissociation and that’s healthy and that it’s not… I’m not broken or anything. I had a hard time copping to that. A lot of times my little affects me even when I’m big and I don’t know it. One of the words I stumble over now recently, that I don’t want to, is instead of “mailman” my little calls it the “nailman,” and he’s scared of him a little bit because nails are scary. And I’ve found that when I’m big, I’ll sometimes say nailman by accident and don’t know that I’m doing it.


PEANUT: Well, do you find that you, even on some level there’s the two entities let’s say, have an awareness of each other? That even when you’re in that really regressed little place, do you have an awareness that you are an adult as well?

MAKO: Well yeah!

SPACEY: Actually that’s interesting. You mind if I jump in on this Brother?

MAKO: Please, I wanna hear this.

SPACEY: I think that’s particularly interesting because for me, at times there’s a very specific sensation of, when I go into a role and it’s very similar for my adult baby headspace and for puppyplay headspace. There’s this way that I perceive the world that I actually kind of shrink down. And it moves to this little part in the back of my head.

MAKO: Yeah.

SPACEY: And like, I can sense it there. And it’s fine.

PEANUT: Do you, like, picture yourself looking a certain way? In your head, do you look littler?

SPACEY: Oh yeah, unfortunately… That’s great until I run into a mirror.

MAKO: Right. And then you have that AAAAH moment where you’re like, “Wait a minute who’s this big person!?”

PEANUT: So, let me ask you guys a question. And I don’t know if this is a girl thing or a boy thing but, sometimes I find when I have my picture taken when I’m little, and then I look at it when I’m big, I think I look strange.

SPACEY: Oh yeah.

PEANUT: And it doesn’t quite look like me. And I don’t always like those pictures of myself. To me, I look… Slow.

MAKO: I definitely look different when I’m little. My eyes are bigger, they focus differently, I stand differently, my center of gravity shifts, the way I walk and hold myself… Completely different.

SPACEY: And I would say…

PEANUT: And your smile is very different too.

SPACEY: What’s interesting is some of that is learned and some of that just is the part of letting a part of your brain that isn’t normally in charge take over.

MAKO: Yeah. Ok, I have some really interesting things to say about that. For a long time I saw a therapist back when my first marriage was on the rocks and going away. And I spent some time little around my therapist, and I asked him about some of this stuff because I wanted to know what was going on. And he told me these really smart things. One thing he said is that when you have some kind of like an alternate state and you engage it, that you actually are, in a very subtle way, engaging a physical change in yourself. You’re brain chemistry changes. Which is why food can really taste different. You’re abilities to do things, the speed at which you breathe and maybe how strong you feel you are, and your posture… All that stuff can change because you actually are changing things physiologically in your body. I know that one of the things that happens to me is, if I’m really little, it’s not so much a problem going from to being big to being little. That’s fairly easy. But if I’m really really super little and I have to get big in a hurry, it actually kind of hurts. I get these…

SPACEY: Right. Although…

MAKO: Little headaches and stuff… Yeah go ahead Brother.

SPACEY: Oh I was recalling there was a time when that used to be harder for you and it seems like it has been getting a little easier for you.

MAKO: It’s a skill. I’ve learned all kinds of things to help me. Visualization helps a lot. Like, I imagine myself running up a flight of steps and I take deep breaths and that works.

PEANUT: Oh yeah that’s tough sometimes.

MAKO: Right. Does it actually cause you physically discomfort too?

PEANUT: Only if I don’t want to grow up. If I’m ready to like, “Ok.” It’s not really a transition. But, it doesn’t cause me physical pain, but it makes me sad, because I love being little. And when I have to grow up in a hurry, sometimes I just don’t want to.

MAKO: right. It’s depressing.

PEANUT: It is, it is.

SPACEY: Like the times when Brother and I have gotten together and enjoyed a wonderful weekend…

MAKO: (Sigh)

SPACEY: And then have to separate.


MAKO: Oh my God. That’s one of the ways that he and I first started to realize that we were kinda the same person. Because the pain we feel at being separated from one another, it’s just a ripping, shredding feeling. It’s so terrible.

PEANUT: Awwww!

SPACEY: Thank goodness for things like this that bring us together again.

MAKO: Yeah. How about you, Brother? When you go from big to little, what kind of side affects or things happen to you?

SPACEY: You know, I haven’t noticed too much in the way of side affects. I definitely, it can be very jarring. I realize that the way I saw the world at one point is different than the way I see the world now, and I can look back over the same stimuli in a way.

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: In sort of a detached way and go, “Huh.” So, this isn’t exactly an example from ageplay, but when I did puppy play the first time.

MAKO: Yeah.

SPACEY: I was down there on the floor. And of course your perception of the world changes when you’re crawling around and all you see are knees and butts and all that kind of thing. (Laughter)

MAKO: Sounds good to me.

PEANUT: (Laugh) Knees and butts.

SPACEY: But I remember having a rollicking time playing this game. And then when I came out of it, realizing that what I was doing was chewing on and playing with my dirty socks.

MAKO:( (Loud laugh)

SPACEY: And I, would not! Do that! I was a little horrified that I did that. So, part of that jarring sensation can be is that realization of what you just did.

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: Though at that time, seemed perfectly normal and fine and fun.

MAKO: I wear combinations of clothing when I’m little that I wouldn’t be caught dead in when I’m big. (Laughter)

PEANUT: Oh my God.

MAKO: One of my favorite things to do, oh this makes my mommies so mad, they both hate it, is I’ll come to bed with one sock on. Just one. Because I think it’s funny to only have one sock on. It’s useless to have one sock. It especially drives Kacie crazy.

PEANUT: Not for the one foot that’s getting the warmth of it though.

MAKO: That’s right.

SPACEY: That’s right.

MAKO: And maybe the other…

PEANUT: It’s worth it to that foot.

MAKO: And maybe the other foot feels like hanging out and being all cool and chilly.

SPACEY: It’s a balance thing.

MAKO: Right!

SPACEY: I’m sure your little was thinking that too, “It’s all about balance in my life.”

MAKO: That’s right. See, this is funny too. The other thing that I wanted to say about regression that’s really changed for me recently, about the past year and a half or so. Back when I first started to really accept how dissociative it is, and that that’s ok, my little and my big… I mean my big always new about my little, but it’s like, I used to say this thing about how we were the same person, but we’re not the same person. We’re not entirely the same person, and we’re not entirely different people. We actually can talk to each other in my head now, which we never used to be able to do. And we have names for each other. Like we’re both Mako to the world at large. But he calls me “the really big man,” and I call him “the really really little man.”

SPACEY: That’s interesting.

PEANUT: Oh my God! Little Heather calls Big Heather “the one who wears uncomfortable shoes!”

MAKO: (Snorty laugh)

SPACEY: (Loud laugh)

SPACEY: This is an interesting thing where we’re same-separate, Brother, because I don’t think I have a different… Something that one side of myself calls the other side of myself.

MAKO: Yeah.

SPACEY: I mean, I definitely have different names for the parts of me that express themselves. There’s Angelica and there’s Spacey and all that, but, and Scamp Puppy when I’m in puppy mode, but… It’s interesting because I don’t see myself addressing my other selves in that way. MAKO: Yeah. See, and what makes this even more like, effed up and strange right, is that I am you and you are me and we’re talking about this, it’s complicated. I spend a lot of time meditating and contemplating things because I over-think the crap out of everything. And I think that it sort of has given me, I don’t know, this permission to examine my dissociative nature and to let it flower some more. Which is not to say that you’re behind me on the curve and like a month from now, suddenly it’s gonna happen. (Laughter)

MAKO: I just think that people find the shape of themselves over time and that we’re evolving creatures.


PEANUT: Yeah. Ya know I’m remembering this evening not to long ago. Daddy and I had gone out. I was grown up, I was wearing high heels, and as the night went on and I got more and more sleepy, and was starting to get more and more little…

SPACEY: Oh there’s a trigger.

PEANUT: And as my shoes became more and more uncomfortable…

MAKO: (Laugh)

PEANUT: I started kinda talking shit about myself like, “Daddy! I don’t like her! Why does she make me wear these shoes? They’re uncomfortable!”


SPACEY: Mommy and I call those her short-lease shoes.

MAKO: Wow.

SPACEY: Shoes like that you can only lease for a period of time.

MAKO: (Laugh) That is so smart.

PEANUT: So, I guess being little and sort of talking about this big Heather person, I was much more… I was really adamant too. Like I remember being very angry like, why was I was wearing these very uncomfortable shoes and walking down the street, the more tired I got.

MAKO: I get things like that too. Where I’ll be little or on my way to being little but I don’t really know. I’ll cop this attitude about how “I’m not little,” and “I’m not sleepy.”


SPACEY: That’s the classic. If my brother says he’s not sleepy, he is gonna be out like a light within 10 minutes.

MAKO: It’s true.

PEANUT: 10 seconds.


MAKO: I have such a rep for that. IYa know, it’s gotten a lot better since I got the CPAP though.

SPACEY: Interesting.

MAKO: Not last night though. I was so wrecked.

SPACEY: Well, it also depends on how you say it. If you say, “I’m not sleepy,” then you’re probably not. But when you go, “Iiiii’m noooot sleeeeeepyyyyyyy!” (Yawn)

PEANUT: And you’re rubbing your eyes.

MAKO: (Laugh) Right. Then I’m totally sleepy. Oh that’s another thing too. I have these… I don’t know, verbal ticks or slangy language things that I say when I’m little that have crept into my grownup language. One of my new ones that I say a lot is, for emphasis, if something’s really good, I’ll say it’s super-total good.


MAKO: And I use super-total all the time now. Which is funny because actually Missy and Kacie use it all the time too.

PEANUT: (Laugh) You know that’s a really good…

SPACEY: Sounds like an all-bran breakfast cereal to me.


PEANUT: That’s a really good point though because Daddy picks up sort of, all these little thingies that I say when I’m little, and I catch him saying all these funny little things too. While he’s on the phone or…

MAKO: Oh and they totally cross-pollinate among your friends too.

SPACEY: One of my favorite things is “really a lot.” “I like that really a lot.”

MAKO: Really a lot. I have one that I got from Peanut’s daddy, this thing called a monkey hug. Or no, it started out as an ape hug right?

PEANUT: Or a gorilla hug maybe, I don’t remember.

MAKO: It was a gorilla hug.

SPACEY: Well it’s a monkey hug now.


MAKO: Ok, gorilla hugs are, you put your arms around someone and then you squeeze ‘em real tight and you go “OOMPH,” while you’re hugging them.


MAKO: Which is hysterically great. And then, monkey hugging is my version of it where you take your fingers and you do it more lightly and you go “Oo oo oo ah!” Which is great. Oh, both of which, by the way, hearken back to something I had done way way earlier which is called a huggerpillar. Which, huggerpillars are amazing but they’re so visual that I can’t explain it on an audio podcast.

SPACEY: You’re gonna have to get one set up and get a video.

MAKO: Yeah, that’s what we’ll do. Maybe we’ll…

PEANUT: I’ll be your demo bottom.

MAKO: Oh, excellent!


SPACEY: It’s a tough life, Peanut.

PEANUT: I know.

MAKO: We actually have a show website now, although, I don’t know if the public at large knows about it yet.

SPACEY: Well, obviously with this show we’re announcing it.

MAKO: right.

PEANUT: Woohoo!

MAKO: What’s the address of that by the way, Brother?


MAKO: Yay!


SPACEY: and if you wanna get in touch with any of your hosts, we’d definitely love to hear from you, write to us at

MAKO: Yay! And so maybe one of the things we could do is, I could make a Youtube video of a huggerpillar and we could put it up there.

SPACEY: Absolutely.

PEANUT: Oh my goodness.

MAKO: Awesome.

PEANUT: We could do a snowy huggerpillar in the mountain next week!

MAKO: (Gasp) Brilliant!

SPACEY: Oh you should explain what’s going on.

PEANUT: That’s why I’m seven and three quarters and you’re not.

MAKO: (Laughter) We are going tubing, (sings) snow tubing!

SPACEY: You might wanna explain what that is cuz those of us down in the south are like, “You’re gonna go put snow in like, a sewer pipe? What’s the deal?”


MAKO: Snow tubing is like, talentless slack-jaw skiing for lazy slobs.

PEANUT: Woohoo!

MAKO: You go to a ski area and they have these inner tubes like the kind, not the kind that are on the internet. The kind you’d swim in a pool with but they’re really big. And you’re at the top of a hill and you lay on the tube and you sled down the hill. And then there’s this thing that, I don’t know exactly what it looks like yet and I’m actually really excited to ride on it, called a carpet lift.

PEANUT: (Gasp)

MAKO: It’s like a lazy chair lift and you throw your tube on it and throw you on your tube and it just kinda carpet lifts you up the mountain, and do it all over again.

PEANUT: Oh my God.


PEANUT: Daddy’s gonna be so happy. He was like, “Is there like, a ski lift?”

SPACEY: So you actually have to do no work to be part of this sport.

MAKO: You could basically be like an amoeba and do it.

PEANUT: I, cannot, wait.

SPACEY: )Laugh)

MAKO: I’m gonna like…

SPACEY: I can’t wait to see how many calories you burn from that.

MAKO: I’m gonna totally like, be an amoeba and maybe asexually reproduce while I’m doing it. It’s gonna be great.

SPACEY: Awesome. You’re just gonna watch the little mitosis… Mvwlthlthlthlthpk…

MAKO: (Laugh) That’s right.

PEANUT: Alright, while you’re doin’ all that, I’ll just be goin’ up and down the carpet ride.

MAKO: That sounds good. Carpet rides sound kinda dirty to me.

SPACEY: Eh it sounds like Aladdin to me.

MAKO: Ya know that’s something we should talk about. So, I know that there are lots of adult babies and age players that, when they are little, they’re not sexual. But I don’t think that’s necessarily always the case.

SPACEY: I know that’ snot true for at least two of the three of us, and I’m pretty sure for three of the three of us.

MAKO: Yeah.

PEANUT: Yeah I’m all about the sex.

MAKO: Well, are there times when… Well me too. But are there times when you’re little, and you’re more sensual than sexual? That, you don’t care?

SPACEY: I would say actually if I’m really regressed then the vast majority of the time I’m not per se sexual, but there’s still that part of me. It does adjust my headspace when sexuality gets involved.

MAKO: How so?

SPACEY: I mentioned before that there’s this part of my big self that kinda goes into this little ball into the back of my brain, and I think that part gets a little bigger when sexuality’s involved.

MAKO: Interesting.


MAKO: What about you, Peanut?

PEANUT: Well. I don’t know. I just, I mean, see, the thing about Little Heather…

SPACEY: It’s not the only thing that gets a little bigger by the way.


PEANUT: The thing about Little Heather is that she… Her most dirty secret is that she always always wants her daddy to touch her down there. So, she thinks about it a lot, even though she knows she shouldn’t.

MAKO: Right.

PEANUT: And there’s just always that element of it. I’ve been blessed with a very dirty daddy, so it’s highly encouraged. And it’s just, pretty much always there. I’m not the type of little who will sit and color for a long time or do certain more typical little girl activities. I get bored very easily. I like stimulation either from other littles or my daddy.

MAKO: I’m kinda half way there. I love to color, I love cartoons, I love movies. I mean Finding Nemo is clearly the best movie ever made.



SPACEY: Especially if you’re a shark.

MAKO: Of course.

PEANUT: Except for Beauty And The Beast.

MAKO: Um, that’s right up there too. I really like it. My one problem with Beauty And The Beast is…

SPACEY: I happen to think Spacecamp was the best movie.

PEANUT: Oh my God I love that movie!

MAKO: I love both those movies, but they both have the same problem which is, the shark part of those movies… Which, there is now shark part in those movies. They’d be superior if they had that. But that’s alright. So, for me it’s really interesting. When I’m little, I might call them peepees and kitties, but I like how they smell and taste and I certainly wanna touch them and have them put on my face and stuff.

PEANUT: (Giggle)

MAKO: I think maybe the difference is that when I’m little, I’m not maybe quite as goal-oriented. It’s not about an orgasm and it’s not about penetration, although I’m not really all about that anyway. But it’s more about just experiencing whatever sensations are in the moment.

SPACEY: And there’s a benefit of taking on a little role. And that is that you can have that experience of feeling like it’s the first exploration. A lot of times.

MAKO: Yeah.

PEANUT: (Contented sigh)

SPACEY: You being shown something for the first time. Being taught…

PEANUT: Yeah. That’s good.

MAKO: Oh God I love being taught things.

PEANUT: That’s a hot button.

MAKO: I love being brought into the bathroom and taught about how boys and girls are different, and how to use the potty, and getting checked and all that kinda stuff. I know that you, Peanut, you are a very big fan of the panty check.

PEANUT: Oh yeah, absolutely! It’s my most favorite thing. I always tell Daddy when I’m like, “Daddy! Check me check me! Make sure everything’s ok down there!”


MAKO: Right. “Check aggressively!”

PEANUT: “Check harder! Check harder!”


PEANUT: “Keep checkin’ Daddy keep checkin!”

MAKO: “Oh, you check me real good.”


SPACEY: That actually might bring us into another interesting discussion, because, some might say that borders on changing the dynamics that most people frequently associate with age play. Which is that the little is the bottom and the big is the top. But, if you’re telling your daddy what to do, is that necessarily the case?

PEANUT: Well, no. I… I… Well, ok. We’re a little bit more complicated.

SPACEY: And that’s what makes it awesome.

PEANUT: Right. Because, Little Heather’s extraordinarily bossy, and she definitely tells her daddy what she wants when she wants it how she wants it.

MAKO: Little Heather tells everybody what to do.

SPACEY: That’s true.

PEANUT: Well that’s because I, am the princess.


PEANUT: And, I think that people…

SPACEY: Mommy said I was the princess.

PEANUT: (Laugh) People might look at it and think that I’m a brat and I’m being too bossy or whatnot, but this is what completely works for us. This is just how we operate. However… So, let’s say 99 percent of the time I’m the boss, even when I’m not little. But in bed, Daddy is always in charge.

MAKO: Hot.

PEANUT: Daddy is bigger, Daddy is stronger, and… That’s when I pay for being bossy.

MAKO: I see something about that too, because I see the two of you interact all the time. Even though you’re more forceful, it’s your daddy that has… How can I put this, what’s the right way? Your daddy knows when it’s time to go home, your daddy knows the right thing for you to eat, your daddy knows when you might need to go to sleep… He’s the possessor of the good judgment.

PEANUT: Yes! Yes, absolutely.

MAKO: And watches out for you and keeps you safe. I think that your little has a very Tommy Pickles-esque quality.

PEANUT: (Snorts)

MAKO: “It’s all about adventure! Let’s go!” But your daddy’s all about, “Well that’s great but, here are your shoes.”


PEANUT: Right right. “And a tissue for your nose.”

MAKO: Exactly. I love that.

SPACEY: What a lovely balance.

MAKO: It is great. It’s funny too because one of the other things that I notice about regression and how it affects I think, sexual identity, is that… I know that for me, I’m ambiguously sexual anyway, but especially moreso when I’m little. I just wanna curl and cuddle and snuggle up with anybody and everybody that makes me feel good. So it’s like, I don’t care if they’re a boy, I don’t care if theyr’e a girl, I don’t care if they’re straight or gay or whatever. I just care that they’re nice to me and that they smell good and that they cuddle me.

SPACEY: right, it’s more about the connection. It’s more about, “I like you, so I wanna be close to you.”

MAKO: Yeah. That’s exactly it.

PEANUT: Yeah. (Happy sigh)

MAKO: I’m just filled with warm goodness. And I just wanna be in bed with all of you right now. Not like in a dirty way just like in a snuggle…

PEANUT: Yes, like a big snugglepile!

MAKO: Those are the best.

SPACEY: Indeed.

SPACEY: Well, we…

PEANUT: I’m in bed right now talkin’ to you boys.

SMAKO: Mmmmmmmmmm…

PEANUT: I’m in a big bed. …???

MAKO: It’s true. Now I miss you both so terribly.

PEANUT: Awww! Ditto! Ditto ditto!

SPACEY: We’ll just have to work on getting together again.

MAKO: Soon!

SPACEY: Indeed.

MAKO: So, I know we had another topic on the docket.

SPACEY: It’s adjustable.

MAKO: Sure. It’s about littles and everybody else. Like the whole wider world. And like, whether we’re a part of that wilder… Wider world or not.

SPACEY: I think we can probably just spoil the suspense of that and say that I think all three of us at least agree that we are part of that bigger wilder world when it comes to BDSM and the general kink community at large.

MAKO: I don’t know, let me really think about it for a while, yes.

SPACEY: Yeah that’s what I though.

PEANUT: Um, yes.

SPACEY: So, although we’ve spoiled the suspense, maybe we should talk a little bit more about the bumps and the bruises of being a part of that.

MAKO: Well I’ve got some. One thing I hear from a lot of littles all the time is… There’s this tendency toward segregation. Like, non-sexual littles will say, “I’m little, I don’t get dirty. That’s gross!” Sexual littles will say, “Non-sexual littles are freaky.” I’ve heard both of them say things like, “Spanking is for weirdos,” or, “Whips are for perverts,…”

PEANUT: Yeah baby!

SPACEY: (Laugh)

MAKO: Or, “I have a mommy, not a mistress.” And it’s all very… I think that all that comes from a place of fear. “That’s different from me, so I’m gonna run away from it.”

PEANUT: Or it’s a way to justify that “What I’m doing is not that perverted. Cuz I’m not doin’ that, that’s really freaky!”

MAKO: Exactly. Like, “With a tube of toothpaste down there? No! I’m just this thing.”

PEANUT: Right.

MAKO: And it’s so unnecessary.

PEANUT: I’ve had a really mixed bag honestly.

MAKO: Yeah?

PEANUT: I do straddle the regular mainstream BDSM world and the littles’ community where I live.

SPACEY: You should tell people a little bit about how you straddle that because I think…

PEANUT: (Snort)

MAKO: I’m all about Peanut straddling!

PEANUT: You guys suck! Uugh!

MAKO: Well, maybe later.


SPACEY: Wow. I love it when I’m unintentionally dirty like that.

PEANUT: Well, ok, when it comes to clothing, that’s always an issue for me. Sometimes I wanna dress little if I’m going to a regular, more grownup event. And so I’ll do like, my middle little outfit. In that way I think I’m trying to sort of, show that I can function in this more adult world and still be this way that I am and be little.

MAKO: Oh right. So you could be a dirty school girl, who’s sometimes a dirty ‘school girl,’ but sometimes a ‘dirty’ school girl. Right?

PEANUT: Right. Yes. And for whatever reason, you’re right, saying “school girl,” that seems to be like, “Oh, school girl, yeah!” And people are like… That’s paletable for some reason.

MAKO: Right.

PEANUT: Show up in a dress with ruffled panties on underneath, and that’s… Suddenly, “Oh that’s a little bit younger.”

SPACEY: And there’s the taboo line.

MAKO: Right.

PEANUT: Right. For whatever reason being a 13-year-old 16-year-old school girl’s ok but…

MAKO: Not a 9-year-old one.

PEANUT: Right. Even though I’m clearly an adult…

MAKO: Right. “Clearly!” I think it’s because people make this mistake, and they confuse arousal with child-like things with arousal with children. And they’re different. I can almost hear Brother rolling his eyes, because it seems like every single there’s a podcast or a talk or a class, we all have to bring out the big “This is not pedophilia” stick and beat people with it until they’re like “Pleas leave me alone!”

SPACEY: Yeah. I hate that too. It’s like, can we just move past that and talk about something interesting?

MAKO: Right. But what I think is, I think that there’s an unexplored subject here, or maybe a refinement. I think the things that make being child-like, or that make being a big to someone who is child-like sexual and interesting are the lack of inhibition, and the ability to explore, and that sense of medleing with someone’s innocence. Corrupting innocence is hot in the right context. I think that’s where the edge happens.

SPACEY: Sure. There’s a lot of mainstream BDSM that’s all about that idea of corrupting innocence. At least a lot of roleplay mainstream BDSM. You take people who like vampire roleplay or that kind of thing.

PEANUT: Right.

SPACEY: Or you take people that like to play with virginity or something along those lines. We know that a lot of these people are not really experiencing their first virgin BDSM experience over and over and over again.

MAKO: Right. How about a doctor molesting their patient? People love that. But you don’t hear people going, “Ooh, medical play is oogie!” because the line is easier to see. Because when you’re in a dungeon and someone’s got a speculum =up your hooha and they’re whacking the crap out of you…

PEANUT: (Sings) Hoo-ha!

MAKO: There’s no question that you’re clearly… You’re not in a hospital. This is not a competent medical professional, it’s play! But when you see someone bouncing around in their frilly underthings, I think maybe it’s more visceral so it’s harder to wrap your head around.

SPACEY: I will say that one thing I’ve noticed is I’ve gotten out and been part of the community and people have actually seen me and seen the scenes that I’ve done and the way I’ve interacted with people. I get a lot of people that said, “Well this always sounded really skeezy and I always kinda scared of it, but then I saw you.”

PEANUT: Yeees.

SPACEY: “Then I saw it.” And I think a lot of it is that they hear talk about it, and when we talk about it, people talk about their fantasies. There’s this thing they build up in their head about the way that that looks and that person in the little role looks like a child. And I think when you see it, when you see that this person who’s wearing the panties or the diaper or the onesie or what have you, also has crows’ feet and some gray hair…

MAKO: (Laugh) Or a beard.

SPACEY: Or something along those lines… All of a sudden, that line that seems a little weird and skeezy is like, “Oh! Ok. This is fantasy. Duh.”

PEANUT: Or boobies. Not just beards.

SPACEY: That’s true.

MAKO: Boobies are great. The thing is though, I don’t think that’s an assumption you can make because… Ok.

SPACEY: I don’t think it’s completely assumption, it’s been an experience I’ve had.

MAKO: What I mean is.. Ok so, I go to Camp Crucible as do the two of you, and one of the people that ran Camp for years, HRH Susan, Mom, she and I had this long talk about littles this one time because, even though she’s been around me for years and known me for years, she didn’t really understand that when I’m little, I’m dirty. And that you can be, and that it’s not gonna make me wanna go screaming to a mental hospital.

PEANUT: (Laugh)

MAKO: I remember we sat down and had this conversation. She’s like, “Woe, really? You can do that? You can say that? You can be around someone like that?” I was like, “Yes!” And she was like, “Well that’s great!” There’s this guy, this sex advice columnist, Dan Savage. Dan Savage says this really smart thing. It’s about gay marriage, which by the way I am rabidly pro, crazily pro gay marriage.

SPACEY: (Sarcastic) Oh no we all hate that idea. What?

MAKO: Yeah, pppfffth…

PEANUT: People who love each other getting married? Ah!

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: What a crazy idea.

MAKO: Which leads me to a question by the way, not to make an aside for myself but, Defense Of Marriage? Exactly what is marriage being defended from?

SPACEY: (Laugh)

MAKO: Aliens? Terrorists?

SPACEY: I think it’s defense of people not…

PEANUT: A 60 percent divorce rate?

SPACEY: There ya go. It’s defense of divorces.

MAKO: Right, people getting married for seven minutes? What was that Brittney Spearse or whatever? Anyway, that’s a whole other subject. I’m sorry.

PEANUT: Hey don’t talk about Brittney. “Leave Brittney alone!”

MAKO: Hannah Montana’s better anyway.


MAKO: Anyway, what Dan Savage says is that the number one thing that turns people that are anti-gay marriage into being pro gay marriage is knowing who’s gay, and seeing them love someone else. Why wouldn’t you want your friend to be married and be happy?

SPACEY: Absolutely.

MAKO: I think it’s just the same kind of thing. It’s really easy to be skeezed out by imaginary age players who are a bunch of creepy skeezoids in your head. But when you actually know them and see that they’re just like you, then it humanizes it. I think that same factor goes into affect in the adult baby or age play communities who go, “No it’s all about hitting people!” If you go out and meet some other leather, kink people, you get to see that really we’re all the same people.

SPACEY: The truth is, everybody’s just people. That’s actually one of the joys I have about running a munch. I think you probably have the same experience. You get these people coming out, and they are so nervous because they think they’re gonna meet all these people who are just sitting in their diapers, talking their baby talk, and they must live their whole life around this one aspect of their personality.

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: And then they get out and, everybody’s people. They gotta pay bills, they have work to do, they’re lookin’ for love, they love other people.

MAKO: Right. They have computers to fix and books to read and recipes to share. It never fails to amaze me how… Political things come up at the munch, and technical things come up at the munch.

SPACEY: Oh my goodness. At the Atlanta munch yesterday, the topics included religion, politics, philosophy, fixing motorcycles, which was by the way a topic I really couldn’t participate in.


SPACEY: I mean, just a range of topics. And by the way some people talked about diapers, some people colored, it was good.

MAKO: Right. That makes me think of two things that I wanna talk about too. Sort of like, to put a pin in for later. One for an upcoming show. Recently, I was talking to someone on IRC about this show, and I had shared with him one of the episodes and he’d listened and he said… He was really surprised. He was like, “I thought you guys would talk more about diapers.” Which is funny to me it’s not… Not to paraphrase Minx on Polyamory Weekly, it’s not all about the diapers.

SPACEY: So much of this show we can thank Minx for helping us structure.

MAKO: Ah so true. Sooner or later, we are gonna have to talk about this diaper thing. So that will be an upcoming show. I don’t know when, but…

PEANUT: (Sings) The diaper show!

SPACEY: And it’s gonna be awesome!

MAKO: Yeah awesome diaper! “Sunday Sunday!”

SPACEY: We gotta get some reverb when I say that…



MAKO: (Echoing) WET WET… Anyway.


MAKO: The other thing is, and I’m totally being self-serving and gonna plug something, a little side thing of my own here if that’s ok.

SPACEY: That’s ok I can cut it out.

MAKO: Alright. Good.

PEANUT: (Snort)


MAKO: Just the same way that we talk about how littles are part of the larger community and there’re things that we can learn from it, there’s actually… I actually write a column for this really great website that’s kind of a magazine of intelligent discussion about kink-related topics called Fearless Press. I write a column there that’s about spirituality of kink called The Tao Of Kink. And I often talk about age play related subject in there and about Taoism and how the two of them are related. The reason I bring it up is, I think that age play on the whole is a lot more complex and subtle and nuanced and thoughtful than just, “Well slap a diaper on that guy and, googoo-gaga.” I think that…

SPACEY: Well that’s good for us because if that’s all it was about we’d have to wrap up this show.

MAKO: Yeah, we’d have like one show. I think that age play colors your whole life. It affects as a whole person, not just in the age play things you do, but in everything that you do. Which is why I think that one of the lessons that comes out of that is that it’s really important as an age player or someone who wants to learn about age play to get out there and get outside your comfort zone and see the ways it affects you and other people and relates to you and other people.

PEANUT: Yeah. And it’s not… I would definitely want to say that it’s not something to be entered into lightly. For me, it is deep. This sort of interaction between two people, or three people or four or however many you involve, it creates very deep and intense bonds.

MAKO: It’s true.

PEANUT: Than last.

SPACEY: That’s a good point.

MAKO: Peanut and I… How long have we been friends now?

PEANUT: Umm, maybe three lifetimes?

MAKO: It feel slike it.

SPACEY: (Laugh)

PEANUT: This time, ten years maybe. Seven, eight, ten, nine, ten years?

MAKO: I’ll say to my mommies all the time, I’ll be little, and I’ll just get very despondent because I just pine for Peanut, I just need to spend time with her.


MAKO: And it’s so fulfilling and good when we do. And the same thing with Brother, I mean, wow. I can’t even… There’s this thing when you were really a little kid and you’d go over to a friends house for a playdate, and you’re so excited you’re gonna go, and you were so excited when you were there, and you just talk about it, and you’re happy and fulfilled… That kind of child-like joy, it pervades into my relationships as an adult now.

PEANUT: Yes. I agree completely. I intensely miss my friends.

SPACEY: I tink Peanut hit on something important there, when she was talking about the intensity of the bonds it creates in that. N the unfortunate occasions where relationships change, where people separate, you don’t just lose a partner, you lose somebody who was close to you on a deeper level.

MAKO: Right.


MAKO: It’s very painful.

SPACEY: For someone who has a mommy/baby relationship, they’ve lost a mommy, or that person has lost a baby, for that matter. Of course that connects to all different forms of relationships out there.

PEANUT: Yeah, I’m still in contact with most of the peole who I’ve shared these types of relationships with, that bond is not broken.

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: That’s awesome.

MAKO: It changes, but it doesn’t break.


SPACEY: That’s interesting. I would say with my ex wife, there was a point where once the trust level was gone, that the bond was therefore broken.

MAKO: Well, it’s different with my ex too. I mean, we’re friends…

SPACEY: I’m actually friends with my ex wife now. I mean, I don’t really wanna talk to her all the time but…

MAKO: I still have contact with her, although it’s very sporadic. Because, her son, who is my step-son, is a part of my life. I love him, I talk to one another and we see each other and go out for sushi with one another and play laser-tag with one another and play Scrabble with oen another. And so every so often in the context of keeping up with him, I have dealings with her too.


MAKO: They’re very casual. We’re just friends. It’s funny because I’m almost very protective of the memories I have with her, because she was my mommy and at one point she was my mommy, my best friend, my business partner, and I cared about her a great deal. We’re different people now.

SPACEY: I do think it is important what you’re hitting on. You don’t polute the good memories you have.

MAKO: Exactly.

SPACEY: By the current situation. Those good times were still good.

PEANUT: Yes, and real.

MAKO: And meaningful.

PEANUT: And leave little pieces on your heart.

MAKO: Part of who I am as a person today, big and little, is because of the experiences I had being little with her.

PEANUT: Yes. And being raised as an adult by different people.

MAKO: Yeah that’s an interesting way to put it!


MAKO: Our littles are raised by people, aren’t they?


MAKO: Including us.


MAKO: Oh, that’s actually…

SPACEY: That’s… Wow.

MAKO: Go ahead, Brother.


MAKO: Yeah we’re getting’ deep on the Big Little Podcast. That’s a point that I do make to people all the time. If you’re single, and you’re little and you feel lonely, c that shit out. Because the fact of the matter is you already have a big. It’s you.

SPACEY: It’s you and you need to learn to love and take care of yourself first.

MAKO: Right. People say to me all the time, here, I’m gonna put a pin in another subject.


MAKO: Because we’re gonna come back to this. This is gonna be another show that we’re gonn have to do, “How do I find a mommy or a daddy?”

PEANUT: Ooh, good show.

MAKO: And the very first thing I’ll say about it, sort of a teaser for the show that we’ll do, is that you find them by not looking. Because you have to be your own big and love yourself first before you can go out and find somebody else.

SPACEY: That’s exactly the advice I give as well.

PEANUT: Heh that’s not what I was gonna say.

SPACEY: (Laugh)

MAKO: What were you gonna say?

PEANUT: Don’t be needy!

MAKO: Yeah.

SPACEY: But that’s part of that, yeah.


MAKO: It’s so easy to be.

PEANUT: But you said it so much nicer.

MAKO: Brother’s really good at softening up some of those mean things that I say. I’ll tell you one of the meanest ones that I say. When I first started with all this, to kinda bring it back to the larger community and our community is, we don’t have a community. There is no such thing. Our community is irrelevant. Ok, and before everyone gets all mad and sends hate mail, let me explain what I mean.

SPACEY: But send hate mail to Mako…

MAKO: Nooo!


MAKO: Stop that.


MAKO: What we are is a collection of individuals. Maybe many of us like diapers or like feeling little, or really think Finding Nemo is the greatest movie ever, but in the end, the community has no welfare. Just individuals do. So, it’s all about seeing to the needs of yourself and the people around you. Not because at some point there’s gonna be some tipping over point, “And then the community will be healthy!” That’s bologna. Every person matters as much as every other person. Why I bring it up is because of babyfurs. Babyfurs get a lot of crap from people. Adult babies treat them poorly because they’re like, “What, he’s in a diaper and he think’s he’s a fox? What an idiot!” And furs treat babyfurs poorly because like, “What, that fox wants to wear a diaper? That’s disgusting!” And that’s just ridiculous. The reality is…

SPACEY: Indeed. Some of the nicest people that come to my munch are babyfurs.

MAKO: Exactly. Some of my best friends are babyfurs. And a lot of people think that I’m a fur, or a fin because of my shark thing.

SPACEY: I plan on exploring it more. We have an event coming here next month right at the time of the munch called Furry Weekend Atlanta, and I’m looking forward to going and checking it out and learning more about it.

MAKO: And you know what, there’s a pair of footy pajamas that make you look like a big shark with a fin on the back.


MAKO: And I want them soooo badly!

SPACEY: Mommy got…

PEANUT: Do they make ones that look like a duck?

SPACEY: Actually I have seen some that look like a duck. Are you familiar with… I’m gonna butcher what you call these things. They dn’t have feet per se, but they look like the rest of that. They’re called kujirumis, it’s like a Japanese thing.

MAKO: Yeah, they’re awesome! I want one so badly. Not a duck one, a shark one.

SPACEY: We can probably post a link in the show notes about where to find some of that. Mommy got a kitty version that I wear, a black kitty cat version. It has the hood that comes down and it’s got eyes and…

PEANUT: Or like that thingy that Kevin has!

MAKO: Right, the bunny suit!

PEANUT: Yes! That’s what I want. That is super soft.

MAKO: He’s such a cute little bunny!

PEANUT: I want one that looks like a duck.

MAKO: That’d be cool.

PEANUT: Yes, because that what Ms. Jess calls me, her duckling.

MAKO: Aww!

SPACEY: And we can get a chicken one for Mako and you can do the Chicken Dance.


MAKO: I would love to do the chicken… Well, can I put a shark fin on the back and be like a chickenshark?

SPACEY: You can be a landshark.

MAKO: That’s awesome. The thing I wanna say about this, which is really an important point, is if you’re an ageplayer, and you’ve been giving babyfurs crap, cut it the hell out! And if you’re a babyfur, and you have a problem with adult babies, it’s your damn problem! Shut the hell up! We’re all individuals,and if you want acceptance, you have to give acceptance.

PEANUT: Ooh, yeah.

MAKO: Ok, so go ahead you guys, say that nicer.


SPACEY: You’re kink is ok…

PEANUT: Um, you’re barkin’ up the wrong tree if you want me to say it nicer.

SPACEY: I think you actually said, the last part you said was how you say it nicer. If you want acceptance, you better darn well be ready to give acceptance. One of the other things you mentioned was that there is no community.

MAKO: Right.

SPACEY: I would say, community is an abstraction, is really what the truth of that is. There is community. There are the relationships that people have and the way people get involved and what they do for others, but it’s not a structured thing. It’s not something you sign up for. It’s not what you write to the rule book…

MAKO: There’s no home office…

SPACEY: At 1400 Walawala Washington…

MAKO: Right. I think the community is what you make of it.

SPACEY: Sure. Which is again, one of the reasons why we got Peanut on this podcast, why we’re doing a podcast, why we do the munches…

PEANUT: Hello?

MAKO: That’s right, and Peanut, who is like an amazing little, is also a Leather title holder.

SPACEY: Exactly.

PEANUT: (Laughs)

SPACEY: That’s your segue!

PEANUT: Oh, am I supposed to talk about that now?


MAKO: Yeah!

PEANUT: Yes. That is true.

SPACEY: I’d definitely be interested in hearing more about how that worked out along with blending the age play aspects of your personality.

PEANUT: Well, I guess the first thing is the name Peanut. I really struggled when I was running for my title as to whether I was going to go by Peanut, which is what everybody knows me as, or use my name which is much more grownup sounding and much more like a Leather title holder. And, in the end I decided that I’m Peanut and that’s how I ran.

MAKO: That’s how ya roll.

PEANUT: That’s how I roll! Exactly.

MAKO: What is your title, for those who don’t know out there?

PEANUT: I was Ms. New Jersey Leather 2006. So this was a couple of years ago.

MAKO: I’ve seen the vest, it’s really hot.

PEANUT: (Laugh) When I was doing a lot of traveling, as title holders often do, I would talk about age play as much I could in an appropriate way. If I was dressed in a certain way, I was often in school girl form or things like that with my vest. And people received me really really well. I don’t know if it’s because I’m absolutely adorable…

MAKO: You are.

PEANUT: Or if it’s just because it was palatable enough to them in the way that I presented it. But I never experienced anything negative in my year as I talked about things, as I… In my bio it said that I’m into age play and that I have a daddy and etc etc. And I never experienced anything, and in fact my fantasy skit for when we had the contest was a really very dirty school girl scene. And it was, again, extremely well received and people would come up to me and talk to me about it and tell me how hot it was. It was very validating for me.

SPACEY: Awesome.

MAKO: I think that maybe part of where that acceptance comes from is, I think there is some social bias that, it’s ok for women to be more regressive and act little than it is for men.

SPACEY: Indeed.

MAKO: It’s ok for women to be soft.

SPACEY: I’ve seen that same kind of bias in organizations where it’s like, “It’s ok for women to be submissives. But men? That’s a little weird, that’s kinda creepy…”

PEANUT: That’s a topic I talked a lot about with Kevin actually. And it comes back to actually how, like dressing like… Nobody bats an eye if I walk into the supermarket wearing overalls and a T-shirt. Or even overall dress that says Oshkosh Begosh and a pair of striped tights like I was wearing at the munch the other day.

MAKO: Right.

PEANUT: We went to the Home Depot afterwards and nobody even looked at me funny.

SPACEY: Right, but if Kevin were to do that…

PEANUT: Exactly.

MAKO: Do you remember… Brother do you remember when we were down at Sister’s house. I think it was you and me and somebody else, went with her to a little supermarket? Sort of like…

PEANUT: Piggly Wiggly!

SPACEY: We went to get ice cream.

MAKO: Right. And as I recall, I think you and I were both dressed kinda little. I think I had overalls on or shortalls or something.

SPACEY: Yeah I probably had shortalls too. And Sister was dressed sort of average.

MAKO: Right. And people were looking at us, they gave us what I call the hairy eyeball. They were completely skeezed out.

SPACEY: We were holding each other’s hand. Sort of an interesting thing to do in North Carolina.

MAKO: Oh that’s like the Disney thing. Brother and I went to Disney this one time, and on our last day there…

PEANUT: This one time at Disneyland…

MAKO: Yeah, not Band Camp. This one time, on our last day, we were really starting to feel the pre-not being with each other sadness. And so…

SPACEY: We also decided to drown that in ice cream.

MAKO: Right, so we’re walking around holding each other’s hands, walking to get this thing called the kitchen sink at Beaches And Cream, and we definitely got a lot of strange looks.

PEANUT: Because you were holding hands?

MAKO: Yeah.

PEANUT: Yeah that’s totally different.

SPACEY: And Brother was wearing a Kermit the frog big green T-shirt.

MAKO: Yeah. Which is a…

PEANUT: Two men holding hands.

MAKO: Yeah the Kermit the Frog shirt didn’t help either.

SPACEY: I don’t think actually a lot of people batted an eye at two men holding hands at Disneyworld. They have a fairly strong gay population in that part of the country.

MAKO: So you’re saying it was my Kermit shirt?

SPACEY: Um, yeah maybe.

MAKO: Damn! Cuz I love that shirt! Screw those people!

SPACEY: (Laugh) I’m just kidding, just kidding.

PEANUT: I love you boys.

MAKO: Oh we love you too.


MAKO: I don’t know, are we tapped out? Is there more we need to say about this stuff you guys?

SPACEY: I think we need to thank people for listening to us today. Listening to us ramble on talking about subjects that we love. It’s nice to get that opportunity.

MAKO: And we need to thank Peanut.

SPACEY: Absolutely. Peanut, can you tell people how they might get in touch with you if they have any questions or if they wanna talk to you?

PEANUT: (Little voice) If you would like to get in touch with me, you can email me at

MAKO: Ooh that’s so fancy.

PEANUT: And I would love to talk to you. Well I am fancy. I am nothing if not fancy.

SPACEY: Gonna have to change your name to Nancy.

PEANUT: (Giggle) She’s my hero!

MAKO: I thought Hannah Montana was your hero.

PEANUT: Fancy Nancy is my style hero, ok?

MAKO: Oh alright. That’s fair.

PEANUT: Well actually Hannah Montana is too.


SPACEY: As we mentioned earlier we have a website now for the show,

MAKO: That’s right.

SPACEY: Go check it out and we have ways to get in contact with us there. You can reach us at

MAKO: Super easy and super convenient.

SPACEY: Indeed. If you wanna complain to Mako directly…

MAKO: Nooo!

SPACEY: It’s, and you can complain to me directly too at Thanks for listening and we look forward to doing another show soon.

MAKO: Yay!


Outtro music

SPACEY: Well (sigh) let’s see. Let me go ahead and close down this browser it’s gonna distract me.

MAKO: Yeah let me get rid of IRC.


PEANUT: and I need to get rid of my CRE.


SPACEY: Don’t forget your MTV.

PEANUT: Oh my God. My D.O.G?

MAKO: (Laugh)

SPACEY: You know me.


MAKO: That’s the best part about podcasting, it’s really fun!