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Big Little Podcast Episode 8: Bratting

Released April 10, 2011

Hosts: Spacey, Mako

Guests: Scotty

Transcribed by Staub. Uncertainty in transcription is indicated with [?]


? [seductive female voice, I’m sorry, I don’t know who it is!]: You’re listening to the Big Little Podcast. This is a show by, about and for age players of all kinds. We expect our audience to be mature, consenting adults, because sometimes the topics on our show are pretty adult too, just like you. If you’e under 18 and looking for upfront advice about sex, please visit Scarleteen.com.

[intro music~! ♪♫♪]

SPACEY: Welcome to the Big Little Podcast, the show by, about and for age players of all kinds. I’m Spacey, and I’m here with my brother -

MAKO: - Mako, that’s me!

SPACEY: Hooray!

MAKO: And we have a special in-studio guest today!

SPACEY: Who could it be?

Scotty: Would it be me?

SPACEY: It could be ‘me’. Now what would be ‘me’s’ name?

Scotty: I’m Scotty.

SPACEY: Hi Scotty!

MAKO: Yay!

SPACEY: I’m surprised you didn’t have some kinda smart, witty retort to that.

Scotty: Not yet, but I’m sure there one before this podcast is over with.

MAKO: Because he’s an expert on, what is it, brother?

SPACEY: He’s a brat.

SCOTTY: I am not! [M laughs]

SPACEY: That’s how you know.

MAKO: Denial is the first step.

SPACEY: To...

MAKO: Being a brat, I guess. [S & SC laugh]

SCOTTY: You can’t prove that I’m a brat!

SPACEY: So we invited Scotty because I saw him do this really great class at 1763 about bratting. And he incorporated all this fun stuff about age play and it was probably one of the most thorough classes on the topic of bratting I’ve ever seen, and I was kinda hoping that he would come here and share that stuff with us.

MAKO: So what is bratting anyway?

SCOTTY: Well this is the thing about bratting, I thought I was just here for free cookies and milk.

SPACEY: Oh, I’m sorry that we have diet coke for you then.

SCOTTY: Aww, see? Bratting is, I dunno, it’s more like, to me, like an attitude I guess. A way of doing things. A way of getting attention. That’s what, in my humble opinion, ‘cause if you talk to a brat they will tell you that they have a different opinion on it than I do. I dunno, I guess it goes back to being like a child, like being a kid. My nephew, he cracks me up because he’s just like me and he says the cutest little brat comments to me and I have nothing to do but laugh. [laughs]

SPACEY: Ah, so you have a role model??

SCOTTY: Oh yes, but I think I have been a brat a lot longer than he has been around.

SPACEY: I hope so.

MAKO: So is it... would you say that it’s seeking out negative attention on purpose?

SCOTTY: No. I think that’s a misconception. I think negative attention is given sometimes because when you’re actually going for attention being a brat then you don’t always get what you want. But most brats are looking for positive attention, not negative.

SPACEY: And how do you mean, positive attention?

SCOTTY: Uh, depending on what the brat is actually seeking, whether they want attention or whether they aim to play - and I mean like being spanked, corner time, or being cuddled and given a story. Attention can be lots of different ways. And for me it would be, of course, I brat to the point where I get spanked and then get told I’m forgiven and then I’m happy because I got to be a brat and I got spanked and then I got loved on all in one afternoon, so it’s like a win-win-win to me! [Spacey laughs]

MAKO: So there’s almost like a recipe or a cycle to it. It starts with a certain kind of action and goes a certain place and then ends a certain way?

SCOTTY: Normally, but that’s where people pitfall, is because we are all human beings and so when you brat somebody, you need to know them and that’s one of the things I always try to teach – you got to know the person you’re bratting. A, know that- do they want you to brat them? B, know what are their hot topics. Cause everybody feels certain ways about themselves that you may or may not know. They could look just fine but they may think they’re fat, or they may think they’re ugly. Or they may think whatever. And if you come up with a fat joke being a brat, even though the person’s not fat... You’ve just touched a spot and now you’ve really... Bratting, to me, is you never want to make someone truly angry and upset. You want to get a reaction but not a negative one. ‘Cause, y’know, the best way to punish a brat is to send him home. Or her home.

MAKO: [laughs] That’s a good point.

SPACEY: Yeah I have my own little toolbox for that.

SCOTTY: So the last thing I wanna be done is sent home to where I don’t get to see the person I was bratting to for a week or a day. I mean, that just crushes me. Like I said, ‘cause it’s the intention. It’s the need to have somebody responding to you.

SPACEY: Now do you negotiate this with people ahead of time? Or how do you figure out where this level is?

SCOTTY: That’s a hard one and I try to explain to people, it’s like, and that’s I say why you get to know people. And I have missed! I will promise you that I have missed and I’m sure I have made somebody mad. But I‘ve also had tops – and dominants, we’re using these terms in this discussion – tell me that I’m the only one they’ll allow to brat because I do know when to stop. And that is a thing to learn. You can tell - if you’re paying attention to the person you’re bratting and they come home from work and you’re waiting and you’ve been, like, off all day. And so you’ve been sitting there colouring and watching movies and you’re lonely and they walk in the door. You can tell by the look on their face whether they’ve had the worst day of their life or not. That is not the time to brat your adult, your Mommy or your Daddy because they don’t need it at that point.

MAKO: That’s interesting. It sounds like... I have this thing where I put things into food metaphors a lot. It sounds like bratting is like a spice almost. Like, ‘well we have this play that we’re going to do, and let me spice it up and make it hotter by tossing some brat-flakes on top of it or something.’

SCOTTY: Oh yes, definitely. Especially since I’m a spankaholic and I will tell everybody that proudly. And I belong to a spanking group and I’m gonna do a shameless plug here.

SPACEY: Feel free, that’s what we’re here for.

MAKO: Absolutely, be shameless.

SCOTTY: It’s Spankers of the South East and it’s been going for 11 years now and I found it about 7 years ago. And boy ty who runs it, along with Mikey and myself... It’s a wonderful thing. And...

SPACEY: I’ve had the fortune to attend a few of the events and I’ve always had a blast when we’ve gone.

SCOTTY: So at their parties, you’re allowed to be a brat. But the consequences is - it’s written in the rules - if you’re a brat then you’re giving them permission – and consent – for them to deal with you by spanking you. You just can’t brat and then say ‘oh no, you can’t touch me’.

SPACEY: Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

MAKO: You know what, I have some experience with that myself – a bit indirectly. Because of course, I’m not a brat. [laughter] No, my wife and Mommy Missy, she’s a middle, a switch like me. And where I first really got to know her was through a local DC group, a spanking group, DC Spanking, where she had quite a rep for being a brat. And I’ve seen her do it. I’m very familiar with the behaviour. Which is funny to me too, ‘cause, I’m actually kind of scandalised by it! I’m like, ‘wow, she’s clearly going for something there, to get something to happen to her. I’m not gonna do that.’ [laughter]

SPACEY: Right. I’d rather ask nicely.

MAKO: Right. [laughs]

SCOTTY: Well, I’ll touch on that. I was thinking about it last night. And one of the things that popped into my head was, is sometimes being a brat is easier than actually asking for what you want. And I’ll put it back to when we were kids. When we were little boys and we’re out on the playground and you liked a girl. [M laughs] You wanted to go up and talk to her and tell her that she was cute and sweet and that you liked her. But you couldn’t do that. So what did you do? You went up, you pulled her hair, you pushed her off the swing. Y’know, you hurt her when you didn’t really want to, but they were trying to show that you actually liked them.

SPACEY: I somehow have the song ‘love hurts’ going on in the back of my head now. [laughter]

MAKO: Me too!

SCOTTY: And it’s true! But I think even now that I’m older, I see it’s easier for some people to brat because they want a spanking. They’ll sit there and annoy the person, annoy the person, annoy the person and wait for a spanking opposed to- because they don’t have it in them, because it scares them to death to actually walk up and go ‘will you please give me a spanking?’

MAKO: Sure. You know what? And it reminds me of something. There’s this thing that age players have talked to me about a lot - and that I’ve experienced it myself too - about, um... – ah, what’s the way to put this. Sort of authenticity in process. Like if you’re wearing a diaper and you want your diaper to get changed, that it’s nicer if the person taking care of you just checks it themselves without you having to say so, right? That if, somehow, if you’re like ‘well, could you check my diaper’ then it’s not as satisfying.

SPACEY: ‘Excuse me ma’am. [laughter] Excuse me ma’am. I have a code brown situation.’ [laughter]

MAKO: Right. And I think it’s the same kind of thing for a spanking. You know, it’s- ‘say Charlotte, I think I might need some discipline’. That just kinda scraps the whole thing.

SCOTTY: It does in a way. I mean, some of the hottest spankings I’ve gotten is ‘cause I asked for it. But the ones that you don’t see coming are the ones that are better. And I’ll explain this ‘cause it deals with A) bratting and being spanked. It was a school night in September, as always, we do ‘back to school’.

SPACEY: Oh, I love that party by the way.

SCOTTY: It’s one of my favourites too. Catholic school girls, ooh my God. [laughter] And anyway, we were sitting there during the schoolroom scene. And all the teachers are up front and we’re bratting in our chairs. And now since bratting is allowed, there is no stop on me. And I was going further and further and further and further to get spanked. Well, I actually stepped into one that I didn’t see coming because the questions– we were getting asked questions.

SPACEY: I just see this hand flying back and just like- [laughter]

SCOTTY: It was almost that bad ‘cause the thing was, it’s like, y’know, something about France. It was like a question – it was about, what does this mean? It was a French word. And I said, ‘well the only good thing that came outta France was ménage-a-trois and French fries’. Well there was a dominant and I won’t repeat his whole name but it part of it starts with ‘French’. And so he just waved his finger at me and brought me up and paddled my butt. And when I realised what I had done by actually slighting his namesake, I couldn’t do anything but laugh because I actually got totally caught off guard in a total brat moment. And put to the task for it. So it ended up being really, really fun and him and I both still laugh about it to this day. He has a wonderful sense of humour. If he hears this, I thank him for the moment.

SPACEY: So while we’re talking about the Spankers of the South-East and the SOS group, I think it might be a good time to mention that they do have some special rules for that group...? Cause they have had some special rules.

SCOTTY: They have had special rules back in the past and they still do. It’s mostly- it’s definitely ‘spanking only’. Which is, of course, spanking and being paddled and being caned and everything. Every now and again the party changes over when we’re all BDSM-ers along with being spankos but mostly- but there’s a lot of times when it’s just a spanking only party.

SPACEY: But it does sound – and I can tell you from experience that typically age play, or at least older age roles are fairly well accepted there. Um, I haven’t really expressed my adult baby side there before. And I’ve been told that that might not be accepted well. Do you think that’s different today?

SCOTTY: Uh... I think the core group of us would accept it with no problem, but-

SPACEY: Sure. So I know many of the people that organise it and I know that they’re actually regulars of the Little’s Munch so I know that they wouldn’t have a problem with it. But obviously I don’t want to upset folks that have come for certain things to the event.

SCOTTY: And they would probably... Someone would have issues with it, but they would not say it. It may just squeak ‘em a little bit. But that’s the wonderful thing about this lifestyle.

MAKO: Yeah, y’know, it’s funny, I’ve had some similar experience with that. I’ve been involved with groups that are spanking-only groups. And actually there’s a term that you used and I wanna make sure we talk about it: a ‘spanko’? Which, for people out there that are age players who haven’t heard the term before, it’s people who are JUST into spanking. And that’s very particular! They don’t consider themselves to be into S&M altogether, they don’t consider it age play. It’s just for spanking. Which, I mean, I find really interesting because I think that there are regressive and age-playish – if that’s a word - elements to spanking as a fetish and that within a certain context, those things are fine. Like, I’ve gone to parties done by SCONY, the Spanking Club of New York, of which they’re a really super nice group of people. A bunch of those folks are age players and a bunch of those folks are BDSM people and a bunch of those folks are very sexual in their spanking. But there’s a very distinct core group of them who are none of those things and spanking is just spanking for them. There’s this thing, Miss Margaret - that is, the head of SCONY - she has this saying about when you’re spanking a girl there. ‘Don’t cross the crease. The cheeks are fine, but the valley below is a no-fly zone’.

SCOTTY: Right, right. Well that’s one of those things. I mean, there’s a lot of different topics when it comes to being a spanko. But it’s like... A person near and dear to my heart, she always called me a fetish... ist... person. I-

MAKO: A fetishist?

SCOTTY: ‘Cause I like doing other things, but it’s like spanking has to be involved when you talk about me. It’s like, I don’t mind being tied down – as long as there’s spanking involved! [laughter] If you’re just tying me down, then you don’t-

SPACEY: Otherwise you’re just hanging out. [laughter]

SCOTTY: Exactly-

SPACEY: Without any choice in the matter.

SCOTTY: And so a lot of times, true spankos, if there is other things going around like someone being tied up, they will put their clothes back on, grab their toys and run out the door. Basically almost scream like their hair is on fire. Because to them, it just scares the crud out of them. It’s one of the reasons SOS was started so many years ago by boy ty was that a place where people could just be spankos and be there and not have to see needles, wax, fire, all this other stuff that makes the BDSM world go round and round and round.

SPACEY: And it’s not an inditement[?] of those things - it’s just there needed to be a place for folks that weren’t yet comfortable with such things, and I understand that.

MAKO: Yeah, absolutely, that’s a point that I really kind of wanna kind of hammer. I think part of tolerance is that making safe spaces for people who have targeted interests is a valid expression! There’s a reason why I’ve never bought diapers with me to a SCONY party. It’s, I don’t wanna skeeze anybody out. I’m just being conscientious. And I know folks from there who come to other age play things and enjoy it just fine.

SPACEY: I have to admit the last time I went to the ‘back to school’ party, I sure had a blast wearing my catholic schoolgirl outfit there.

SCOTTY: Ah yes.

MAKO: You were so cute in that.

SPACEY: I definitely turned some heads. [laughs]

SCOTTY: You definitely did make some people go ‘whuut?’ But I thought you were hotter’n hot.

SPACEY: Wooh!

MAKO: Well, Scotty, I have a question for you. In your experience do you see... have you found that there are spankos that start out that way but then go ‘hey I think I’ll kick it up a notch and try these other things too’?

SCOTTY: Yes. That does happen. People do, like, evolve and start to grow and try different things. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they will. I guess the thing is... boy ty, I keep mentioning him, we do a class together about spanking 201. And it really tries to explain to the BDSMers in the world that we’re not just a bunch of lightweights that are ‘oh we’re just novices and we’re just beginners’. I been a spanko my whole life and I’ve been doing it for 10 years now and I’ve had my butt beat more times than I can possibly count at this point.

SPACEY: And I’ve seen some pretty intense pictures too that you’ve posted to your fetlife for instance.

MAKO: Oh my gosh, the hardest player I’ve ever known in my whole life was from DC spanking.

SCOTTY: I’m a hard player, so you can’t really call me a novice. But some of the BDSMers out there think that, ‘oh if you’re only into spanking then you’re still in the kiddy pool part of the pool. You haven’t grown up to go take off the little swimmies and go out there and swim with the big kids.’ [Mako laughs] And it’s not really the case.

SPACEY: We do not judge being in the kiddy pool on this podcast! [laughs]

SCOTTY: Exactly, I love the kiddy pool! I think it’s the best place in the world!

MAKO: And you know what? Even though I’m a really good swimmer, if anyone out there knows of a place to get adult sized swimmies - especially with sharks on them - I’d really like to know.

SCOTTY: [laughs] That would be so cute, Mako! I would love to see a picture of you in your swimmies, I just would.

SPACEY: I’m sure it’s a matter of time.

MAKO: [laughs] It’s true.

SPACEY: My goodness. Well I think we’re drifting away from the topic a little bit.

MAKO: Yeah, yeah, let’s... [rewind noise] [laughs]

SPACEY: We’re not always good at staying on topic here on the Big Little Podcast, that’s for sure. Kids running a podcast? It’s gonna go a little off the rails.

SCOTTY: Lines? I don’t need no stinking lines. [laughter]

SPACEY: Uh, maybe now would be a good time to introduce some of the questions that we had folks bring to us. And I think I’ll ask brother to start out with the first one.

MAKO: Okay. This is from a friend of the show.

SPACEY: Friend of the show!

MAKO: And member of our extended family, actually, our friend Maya. Who asks- she said she saw this great demo on bratting back at the big Black Rose event several years ago. And during the event they focused on how to do it creatively, in a fun way, to heighten and build up the energy between the participants. It takes the energy of the scene and starts it off with a bang because then the brat gets hauled off for their punishment. But one of the things- they made mention of the fact, and you had mentioned this before, Scotty, any teasing the brat did was more about actions and not about traits. Like ‘you can’t hurt me with that paddle!’ as opposed to, say, ‘you’re a bad Daddy’ or ‘your hat looks stupid’. Because the former kind of thing, that’s like silly fun. ‘Oh yeah? Prove it.’ Whereas the latter sort of thing can be hurtful and emotional and actually drain the energy down.

SPACEY: You don’t have to comment on my hat!

MAKO: I like your hat, brother! So the- - we’re both wearing silly hats. So the question she’s- the core of the question is ‘what’s the difference between, say, bratting versus being a smart-ass masochist?’

SCOTTY: Okay, I definitely had that to say later on in the podcast at some time. To me, a smart-ass masochist, or a SAM as we relay it to, is just somebody that’s gonna sit here and keep pushing your buttons and won’t care if he actually or she actually insults you. They’re gonna keep pushing you and pushing you and pushing you until they beat the utter dog crap out of you. And maybe not in a good way. They’re just gonna keep pushing until they get a reaction. Now a brat wants a positive reaction and not just ‘you beat the crap outta them’. They want, like, attention. And to me there’s the biggest difference about that. Cause most brats... I’m sorry I started tapping something. [laughter] Uh, uh, uh...

MAKO: I’ll spank you later. [laughter]

SCOTTY: Exactly. Most brats are looking for positive interaction and not negative. And most brats do know when to stop on the line. Or stop juuuuust short of the line. And of course, as I always say, I like to have rules given to me and I like to push the line as far as I can in the sand before it actually breaks. And sometimes it has broken when I didn’t realise it was going to break.

SPACEY: But it occurs to me that’s a very natural thing – that if you observe actual children, usually in the age range of 2 to 3 to 4, that’s the time they’re also pushing their boundaries and finding out where those rules are. And so it very naturally fits in with age play, I think.

SCOTTY: Bratting and age play are like hand in hand to me. Because where do you see the most brats? You see them in the little supermarket, on and on about this and that. And I do have a funny story about that. I was in the supermarket with Mommy at the time. And we were going up and down every single aisle of the grocery store. But we skipped two. Can you guess which two aisles we skipped?

SPACEY: Ooh, I know one, I know one!

SCOTTY: Which one do you-

MAKO: You go first, I’ll guess the other one.

SPACEY: I’m going for the candy aisle! Candy aisle, Bob?

MAKO: And I’m gonna guess the cereal aisle.

SCOTTY: It was the cereal aisle was the one we skipped, and the toy aisle.

SPACEY & MAKO: Aaah.

SPACEY: So I got the big- Bob gave me the big [makes buzzing ‘wrong answer’ noise].

SCOTTY: And so even though I had been promised a toy at a different store, I started saying, ‘why did we skip the cereal aisle and the toy aisle?’ And we were in the frozen food aisle at the time and I had been going on for, like, 10 minutes. It’s not like she only took 2 minutes of this. And she finally said, ‘if you do not stop, I am going to spank you here and there in this grocery store in front of this shop clerk and I am going to embarrass you.’ The shop clerk started laughing so hard he dropped the frozen food out of his hand onto the floor, he was laughing so hard. [laughter] But I did stop. [laughter]

MAKO: That would do it. [laughs]

SCOTTY: Which just shows you. I was pushing and the line was drawn and it was all about ‘cause I wasn’t getting what I want. But it’s not like I needed a toy, I have plenty of toys at home. [Spacey laughs] I just wanted a new one.

SPACEY: I think you need another Eeyore.

SCOTTY: I always need many more Eeyores.

MAKO: I understand that completely.

SPACEY: Scotty has one of the largest collections of Eeyores of anybody I know.

MAKO: Wow. Y’know, sometimes Littles really do fixate on things. I‘m glad I don’t really have anything like that.

SPACEY: [laughs] That’s right, shark boy!

MAKO: [laughs] It’s funny. The thing that I hear you saying... I think maybe a good way to sum up the difference between a SAM and a brat is, with a SAM... A smart-ass masochist does something to someone and they don’t care about the person on the other end. Whereas I think with a brat, it’s like tangoing. It’s a dance, right? You have to do it with another partner, and you have to care about that partner.

SCOTTY: I find that yes, you do care if you want to be - and I’ve started using this term - instead of just being a brat, I strive to be a loveable brat.

SPACEY: Ah. A scamp.

SCOTTY: Or a scamp. There’s different definitions. But ‘cause, y’know, I’m not the hardcore brat that really goes out of his way to upset people. Because if I’ve truly upset somebody that I care about then that’s gonna hurt me more than being spanked or put in the corner or anything else that can happen because I really never strive to hurt people.

SPACEY: Right.

MAKO: Yeah, my Mommy Missy, when she was in her hay day of her bratting days, she was known as ‘sweet brat Missy’. And I think it’s kind of the same idea.

SCOTTY: Right. Um... Did I answer your question, or did I...?

MAKO: Yeah, that’s good.

SPACEY: That was pretty good. I’m gonna go ahead and tackle the next question. And this comes from a friend of ours named Fita [?] who we know from the Atlanta Littles Munch actually.

MAKO: Yay, Fita!

SPACEY: And he asked, ‘is bratting equivalent to topping from the bottom? If it isn’t, what are the differences?’ And he says, ‘I’m not sure how much bratting I would do personally. But I know the mommy boy dynamic is different than dom/sub. But I would like to feel as a sub, that I shouldn’t brat. I could see bratting as being more common in maybe Dom Littles and sub Guardians?’ So it sounds like what he’s doing is he’s drawing these lines in different kinds of roles where he says that bratting is more popular than others. But what I also hear is since he is really into the Dom/sub, he’s really looking for that power exchange. Does bratting have a place for him?

SCOTTY: It has less of a place in Mommy/boy or Daddy/girl or any of the ways you can be a family ‘cause there’s a lot of different ways of being family. To me the bigger the family the better it is. I love every brother and sister I’ve ever had.

SPACEY: Me too!

SCOTTY: Mommy, Uncle, Aunt.

MAKO: Me too.

SCOTTY: But you still can brat in a Dominant/submissive role. But you have to be a lot more careful. And I do have an example of this ‘cause it was at a club. But you have to realise if you brat a Mistress or a Domme or a Master, or whatever you wanna call them, if they will not stand for it and you do this in front of other Masters and Mistresses, you’re in deep, deep trouble and it may be something that ends your relationship which, again-

SPACEY: That’s crossing the line.

SCOTTY: That’s way crossing the line and that’s the last thing any brat or anybody wants to not end anything like that that way. So... But I need to say that there are warning signs to be looking out for when you’re bratting somebody, then you’re about to be in trouble. Cause these are the three classic signs that you’re in deep, deep trouble. And the first one is the look. If you’ve ever been an age player and you’ve ever had a Mommy or Daddy and you’ve done something that you’re not supposed to - whether it was being a brat or going over to the slide that you were told you could not go down at that point - you get the look which means you are now in trouble. [laughter] And that’s the first one to watch out for. But normally the brat doesn’t see the first sign, or they go ‘well, let me just push a little further’. The second sign is they come over and they swat you on the behind and tell you to behave. Or they just tell you to behave. Or they sit there and whisper in your ear, ‘you need to be a good girl or a good boy for me’.

SPACEY: Or all of the above.

SCOTTY: Or any of those combination. It’s the second warning. The third one is your full name being called out. [laughter] Like: ‘Mary Sarah Simpson!’ At that point you have pretty much earned some kinda punishment of some kind.

SPACEY: Scotty Alouishus Broobaker Baxter the Third! [?!]

SCOTTY: Exactly. So...

MAKO: I would just be mad if I had to say that whole name. [laughter]

SCOTTY: So I was at the local dungeon, 1763, in Atlanta.

SPACEY: I love that place.

SCOTTY: I do too. And I was sitting there and I was kinda watching this happen from the other side of the room. But being a brat, you kind of see things happening around you when someone else starts bratting. Well, this submissive girl or bottom - I don’t know exactly what she was - was in a circle with her master and all these other dominant people. Well, her master and all the dominants were having a complete discussion. And she decided that since she wasn’t part of it, she wasn’t getting enough attention. So she started trying to jump in on the conversation by changing the subject - which we all know is just like death on a stick.

SPACEY: Camera back on me, camera back on me...

MAKO: Yeah, yeah... [laughs]

SCOTTY: And so he gave her the look and I just chuckled on the other side of the room ‘cause I saw where this was going. [Mako laughs] And of course she stayed quiet for maybe 2 minutes. And then she started pulling on Daddy’s sleeve, on his vest and I’m like ‘oh yeah like that’s not gonna have an effect’. And he said behave and swatted her on the butt. I’m thinking ‘uh oh’. And it didn’t take more than five more minutes and her full name was called out. And then he drug her over to a spanking bench and just spanked the daylights out of her. I mean, she did get up with a big smile on her face, so they were interacting in a positive way, but you could just see it coming.

MAKO: Well see, and that’s really interesting. Can I take the next question? Cause I actually have a prelude to it that occurs to me about this. So Shuzi [?] from the d-diaper chatroom over on rizon.net where I’ve been chatting, she asked me earlier today, ‘is bratting just for play or does it just come naturally when Littles are cranky or whatever?’ I know they say they do it to test boundaries too, even if they don’t mean to. And before you answer this I wanna toss my own opinion into the ring ‘cause I have some personal experience with this. [Spacey laughs] When I’m tired, I’m kind of unmanageable.

SPACEY: Very contrary.

MAKO: Yeah: ‘I’m not tiiired, I don’t wanna do it. I don’t have to goooo.’

SPACEY: You can always tell when he’s in this mood because everything gets lengthened out. ‘I’m not sleeeeeeeepy’

MAKO: ‘Tiiiiiired’. [laughter] Yeah. And when that happens, more often than not, my Mommies will be like ‘Mako Allen! Roar!’ And it will happen. The thing that’s really interesting to me about this, and it’s almost sort of subconscious - I’m not looking for a beating. I don’t want to be punished. I’m just authentically being cranky and sleepy and fussy and tired. And when that happens and I actually do get punished it’s actually really cathartic and I tend to sleep like a brick. Because I’ve got some kind of pent up feeling, I know that I need some kind of attention. And even if it’s attention I don’t really want, like the negative kind as opposed to the positive kind, there’s some good to it and in the end, both my Mommies have told me that it’s actually a very validating experience. Because they will do what needs to be done and it makes them feel confident in their role and me in mine. And even though I don’t particularly want to have to sleep on my stomach, the next day, I’m really well behaved and really doting and really loving. So I mean, I definitely think it’s positive.

SPACEY: Right. Which is different again, because my relationship with my Mommy is mostly built on being a very good kid. When spanking happens with us, it’s typically a maintenance spanking or a funishment kind of thing. It’s not really about punishment because for the most part, I try not to have to deserve punishment myself.

MAKO: Honestly, me too. But I feel very liberated by the fact, and it makes me feel very safe, that I don’t have to be necessarily be 100% cognizant of my behaviour all the time - because someone else is doing it.

SPACEY: And I think that one of the things that you’re expressing is that it’s nice to finally find out where that boundary is and know that there’s a boundary there.

MAKO: Yeah, it makes me feel safe.

SCOTTY: And I will add my 2 cents into it. I have different opinions on this a little bit. But... To me, I tend to swallow my emotions, which is not a healthy thing as a child or as an adult, and I just swallow and swallow until I can’t take much more. And then normally in a scene, ie, if I get to be- I tend to start becoming more bratty because I become clingy. And when I become clingy, if you- and we all understand that term, when you’re right on top of mommy or daddy’s shoulders. And you’re like, got a hold onto them like any other child would hold onto the pants leg, you don’t wanna let go. I got my Eeyore on one hand I got my other arm possessively attached to Mommy or Daddy. Well it’s like, I’ll start bratting because the emotions need to be let out and it tends to end up into a spanking scene. And when I can finally let go of the emotions, one of the best things which is also what you’re talking about, which makes you sleep really good, is at the end, the caretaker - for lack of the better phrase of saying what they are - actually forgives you and tells you that you’re loved and they love you and they put you to bed. And there’s, to me, not more than a wonderful feeling than that. Because even in a funishment or a real punishment, at the end, Mommy or Daddy or whoever it is always tells you that no matter what you did and no matter how upset they were with you, that they still love you. And that now that it’s all over, you’ll be the good little boy that you always are or the good little girl to them tomorrow.

MAKO: It’s like reaching the top of a really high mountain or, I dunno, having a long cool drink after going for a long run or something, right?

SCOTTY: Right.

SPACEY: All water tastes better when you’ve been hot and running, that’s for sure.

SCOTTY: And there are days where I am just so much needier than others. And a lot of times, people start to brat because they need interaction with other people. There’s something that’s causing them to want and need the attention. Most people don’t believe this because I am a very outspoken and happy person on the outside for most of the part, but I have my days where I look in the mirror and I don’t like what I see. I feel small and I feel ugly and we all- just like any kid would, when I drop into that bad mode. But I have people that love me – Spacey being one of them.

SPACEY: Yay!

MAKO: Aww...

SCOTTY: And plenty other people. But some days you feel like you don’t deserve the love everybody’s giving you. And what you kinda do is you kinda act out and you start becoming a brat.

MAKO: And it pushes your reset button?

SCOTTY: It kinda presses the reset button - especially with the spanking that comes after it, ‘cause sometimes there’s tears. Which is a positive thing for me, I mean, everybody’s different.

SPACEY: I can definitely see that some of the reasons why bratting doesn’t work for me is because it particularly doesn’t work for my Mommy. She doesn’t typically respond well to people going out of their way to cause trouble. And therefore I’ve sort of set my own reset level and expectations around that. Which is fine because that actually really works well for me, but...

MAKO: What do you do, brother, when you need a reset? How do you handle it?

SPACEY: Uh... I really don’t think I have a good answer for that. I’m not sure. I mean, partly, doing age play - period - is a reset for me. I’ve never been one that’s big on the BDSM catharsis, y’know, physical catharsis kind of thing. Like, I tend to find mine more intellectually and emotionally, I think.

MAKO: I think if there are ways to do that and to, like, I don’t know, mingle them a little bit. I know that there’s many a time when I’ll come home from my very stressful job and one or the other or both of them, of my Mommies, will say, ‘you clearly need some Little time.’ And I’ll be like, ‘no, no, I don’t!’ And they’ll be like, ‘diaper now.’ And I’m like, ‘fine, okay...’

SPACEY: [sarcastically] Gee, I wonder what Mako’s trigger is for his Little space? [laughter]

MAKO: It’s a trigger. I have lots of triggers, there’s all kinds of things. - although that’s a whole other show. I think that... I think that bratting doesn’t necessarily have to be negative. I think Scotty’s got the right of it. I think that you can be, like, mischievous? Saucy, to a point?

SPACEY: Well that actually gets to something I wanted to ask which is, a lot of times bratting seems to be about the humour of it. And so do you ever do bratting just for the comedy of bratting?

SCOTTY: I’m gonna have to say that, yes. I admit that I have a wicked sense of humour and if you’ve ever seen ‘The Far Side’ by Gary Larson - he retired a long time ago, just showing my age - I have that sense of humour. I look at things, even my family – my real family – tells me this all the time, I look at things in a completely different way than the rest of the world looks at things. And I’m okay with that! But yes, I love the jokes that you get- y’know the popsicles that the jokes come on it for, like, five year olds? I love those.

SPACEY: Where it’s on the wrapper, where it’s on...

MAKO: Yeah. Me too.

SCOTTY: I love those jokes. ‘What did the breeze say to the screen door? Just passing through’. [laughter] And I say smart-alec things even at work. I won’t say where I work, but I work with customers. And I will make a little smart-alec little comment and sometimes the customers get it and they laugh along with it and a lot of times it goes over their heads. But...

MAKO: That makes it even funnier a little bit, right?

SCOTTY: I just chuckle. It’s nothing mean, it’s just a part of what I am. I am very sarcastic and I will deadpan a joke and to people who don’t know me, they sometimes think I’m, like, serious. And most of the time of my life – like 90% of my life – I’m always joking and having a good time. Because I’ve decided that there’s 2 ways of going through life. You can go through life crying or you can go through life laughing. And if I have to pick one, or even force myself to do one or the other, it’s gonna be laughing. And that means laughing at yourself. Laughing at myself.

MAKO: Oh definitely.

SPACEY: Absolutely. I totally agree with that. I even think that what we do as age players can be funny in and of itself, and that’s okay.

MAKO: It’s definitely funny. I was just thinking as you were talking about this about things I do subconsciously where I’m not even intending to brat. A lot of times I sort of will hear things in a way that’s literal or I’ll try to lawyer out of or sidestep out of a situation. Like...

SPACEY: And I also think that’s a very natural kid thing to do. And I totally do that too. I’m always trying to look for the kid logic out of a situation when I can.

MAKO: Me too. Like, here’s an example – one of my Mommies in particular, Casey, she likes to groom me. Like pop skin things. And pick things out of my hair.

SPACEY: Urgh. That’s a trigger for me dude.

MAKO: I know. I’m gonna say this here and now, and she’s not gonna care: I hate it. A lot of times I’ll say ‘hey, you know what I want for my birthday?’ And she’ll say, ‘no, you can’t have that’. Or like, the thing I’ve been doing recently is she’ll go to do that to me and it kinda hurts, and I’ll put my hand in front of my mouth and I’ll say, ‘stand by for an important message!’ and then I’ll go ‘ow! Stop that!’ and she’ll say, ‘stand by for another important message: sit still.’ [laughs] Like, she doesn’t care. [laughs]

SCOTTY: Well there’s always different ways of doing things and everything. But that is just funnier than anything. [Mako laughs]

SPACEY: So let’s go to another question here. And this is I think from someone again from the IRC chat, if I recall. Mishi?

MAKO: Yep, that’s her.

SPACEY: She says, ‘I’m a brat and Daddy likes it. But I’ve had other Bigs that are totally turned off by it. How do you deal with those different situations? Is bratting core to you or can you turn it off and on depending on who you’re with?’

SCOTTY: I can turn it on and off. It’s hard some days. There’s some days when I know that I cannot turn it off. And then I just do what Mommy and Daddy always told you to do - ‘if you couldn’t say nothing nice, keep your big fat mouth shut.’

MAKO: [laughs] What a nice way to say that.

SCOTTY: So sometimes I’ve done that. One of the things I wanna touch upon is when you come up to someone brand new, and you do not know ‘em... Bratting somebody that you’ve never met before and you’ve pretty much come up and said, ‘hi, my name is-’, and then your next thing out of your mouth is a brat comment... Probably not gonna go over very well - ‘cause you don’t know what type of person you’re dealing with. I’ll say like an example and the best way I can describe it is the movie Hook with Robin Williams and Dustin Hoffman. Robin Williams, who plays Peter pan, is an adult who’s forgotten who he is and needs to be shown how to play and have fun. And gets it eventually and it becomes near and dear to his heart. And then there’s the other character that we don’t like, which is Dustin Hoffman, which is Hook, which there is no fun in him whatsoever. [laughs] Except for stealing money and making people get hurt. So you need to know - are you talking to Peter Pan when you walk up or are you talking to Hook? [laughs]

MAKO: That’s a good way to put it.

SCOTTY: Because you’re gonna get a completely different reaction. And the worst thing about bratting someone you don’t know is even if they don’t say anything to you, they may tell people that you have never met before, ‘oh don’t go talk to him or her ‘cause they’re the most rudest person I’ve ever met on the world’. ‘Cause when you took a brat comment, they took it as being disrespectful. And that’s again why I say it is ultimately important to know who you’re bratting. And at least, even if you never brat to ‘em until about the 3rd or 4th time you met ‘em, you’ve got to know them and they’ve got to know you and know that even if you say a bratty comment, you’re not meaning it disrespectfully. ‘Cause even if you say ‘with all due respect’ and then you say something mean, they’re still gonna take it as a mean comment.

MAKO: It occurs to me that there’s a piece of advice - I think we’ve said this before, actually I think several times before in other episodes. About how when you’re an age player, if you’re a Little, even if you’re single, if you don’t have a Mommy or a Daddy or what have you, you do have a Big! And it’s you! And so I think that maybe part of a way to approach that is if you feel Little and you wanna be bratty, maybe you should check in with the Bigger part of your brain to see if it’s a good idea or not. ‘Cause it sounds like bratting is like a witty repartee or a fabulous dance that you do with someone else that you know. [laughs] But it’s not something that you would just do casually to a stranger.

SCOTTY: Not if you’re smart. ‘Cause you may luck up and a stranger may have a brat streak in them. ‘Cause contrary to popular belief around the web, dominant people do have bratty traits and some of them are just as big a brats as us Littles. Which is always fun to find that person and it makes it easier to play with ‘em cause they know you don’t mean any harm, you’re just being a brat.

SPACEY: Actually I have a couple of things based on that that I wanna put a pin on that. But I also wanna talk about... We seem to be developing this theme that bratting is something that happens verbally. We’ve talked about verbal kinds of play – what to say, what not to say, what to listen for. But there’s a physical aspect to bratting too - or there can be, I’ve seen. Like silly string or water guns or that kind of thing.

MAKO: Like Tantrums.

SPACEY: Do you have any advice or thoughts about that?

SCOTTY: Yeah, I’m gonna answer your question first, Spacey, then I’ll go to yours on the tantrums, ‘cause that’s a whole different ball game. Physical ways, one of the most fun things I ever did was a class on role play. Mommy and I did a class on role play. And so she talked for about an hour about how to role play, then she said ‘go ahead and go get changed, and we’re gonna do a scene’. Now that was it. Except for that I was gonna be a brat until she spanked me, there was nothing said amongst between the two of us. So I went and got my drop-seat pyjamas on - which I love by the way!

SPACEY: [laughs] I wonder why that would be! [Mako laughs]

SCOTTY: And then I came out and I brought a prop with me. And I actually brought the prop with me today, ‘cause props are a good thing to be a brat. And they’re harmless-

SPACEY: Oh my.

MAKO: Oh...

SCOTTY: This is gonna be loud, so...

[toy sound]: Fire! [shooting noises] Fire, fire! [shooting noise] [Mako laughs]

SCOTTY: I brought this thing for like 3 dollars before at a different event and it’s one of the most funnest things I’ve ever bought in my life, being a brat. So I came out in my pyjamas and I turned and I pointed the gun at her and I pulled this thing. Now everybody starts laughing and she goes, ‘where did you get that gun? Did you get it from school?’ and I was like, ‘no, I found it.’ ‘Well why do you wanna have a gun?’ And it’s like, ‘it’s just like they say on TV.’ And I started singing, ‘[sings] be all that you can be! In the aaaaaarmy!’ And by this time everybody in the audience has lost it. They are laughing so hard they’re crying. And then she proceeded to tell me why guns are bad and then she spanked me and that was the end of the scene. But it’s just like...

MAKO: That’s really creative!

SCOTTY: And the wonderful thing about roleplay - and age play is a form of roleplaying and bratting is definitely a form of roleplaying – is that it doesn’t have to be scripted. As long as both parties are in the mood to role play then it’s fun. And as long as both people interact with each other, no one just sits there like a bump on a log and doesn’t do anything, any reaction is a positive one. ‘Cause when I react in my way, she went completely different and then I reacted and we just started feeding on each other. And it was one of the most fun scenes I ever did. So roleplay- I have, I did not bring it with me, but I have this thing called a flying, screaming monkey.

SPACEY: Oh, I remember when you got that. [Mako laughs]

SCOTTY: It was for Halloween and they were giving them out to you and I went back to the store from the dungeon like 7 times and completely bought them out of flying, screaming monkeys. ‘Cause every time I brought one back, everybody would be like, ‘ooh, where’d you get it?!’ And it’s got rubber bands and you aim it to the sky and you let it go and it screams – ie, a screaming monkey [Mako makes monkey noises] and it flies across the room.

SPACEY: I’m not going to do it justice but... [really loud monkey screaming noises! (AA! AAH! AAH!)] It sounds about like that. [laughs]

MAKO: Which is why Casey never lets me have one! She’s turned me down like 5 and 6 times now at various Hallmark stores or whatever. Every time I see ‘em and I’m like, ‘[gasp!] I could have that!’ and she’s like ‘uh, no you cannot’.

SPACEY: It reminds me of that time you bought all those noisemakers with you to camp. I remember I got to keep mine for like 10 minutes.

[50 minutes in]

SCOTTY: Exactly. So these are simple things that you can buy at grocery stores during the holidays or dollar stores. And it’s just one little prop can start a whole scene. Now there was nothing hurtful about that thing and since some people, it’s gotta be physical props. It’s gotta be a certain way for Littles to get into that space and that allows their Big to understand. One of the biggest example I ever heard was the girl, when she wanted to be in Little mode, she would put her hair up in pigtails and pull out the colouring book and the crayons and when Daddy came home– Master and Daddy came home, when he saw little girl in pigtails colouring, he knew exactly where she was going and what she wanted for the night. And they did their little scene and everything like that. Because it was... not a trigger, but a sign?

SPACEY: Sign’s probably a good word. An indicator.

SCOTTY: An indicator of where she wanted the night to go. And then he did it and everything. So for a lot of people on school day, they gotta get in the uniform. Once they get into the uniform, it’s like a switch is turned and they become the bratty Catholic girl that we all know and love. But once they-

SPACEY: Or guy.

SCOTTY: Or guy. But once they get out of the uniform, they go back to being a sweet submissive or slave. It’s funny watching a slave that doesn’t sit on the furniture unless given permission turns into a bratty catholic girl. I mean it’s like watching a different person! And it’s fun!

SPACEY: It is kind of a different person. And that’s what role play gives us permission to do, is be different people.

MAKO: That’s really interesting too because the thing that you were saying with the noisy gun and the scenario that you were just describing, it strikes me - it’s a way of bratting without a target. You’re bratting and doing a clearly not great behaviour, but it’s not a behaviour that could be psychologically demeaning or insulting to another party. It’s bad behaviour that’s bad in and of itself – so maybe it’s like safe bratting?

SCOTTY: You don’t hurt anybody’s feelings when you’re using props like that.

SPACEY: It does occur to me that there’s something to be careful about though. Because running around with a gun is one thing and that’s not directed at anybody. Maybe running around with silly string isn’t directed at anybody. But silly string has ramifications and repercussions, right? Somebody’s gotta clean that crap up.

MAKO: Well that goes back to this story that I was gonna tell. So I have this near and dear friend, that I’ve known for many years, NullMoniker, who, when I was first getting into age play, he was almost like a father figure to me. And I would go over to his house and one of the things that he would do, which was really sweet, is he bought me this big kit of play-doh to play with. But he told me, he was very specific - he gave me this advice, guidance, warning? He said, ‘the rule is that you don’t mash the play-doh in the carpet - or you get mashed in the carpet.’ And he wasn’t kidding. I never did mash it in the carpet. It’s actually really funny because his young daughter was actually visiting him one time and she and I were doing play-doh together at the table. And he said, ‘remember Mako, don’t mash the play-doh in the carpet!’ and she said ‘yeah, or you get mashed in the carpet’. I was like, ‘fine, I know, okay!’

SCOTTY: She was just trying to help you!

SPACEY: I wanna- there was one thing you said to put a pin in earlier which was about temper tantrums.

SCOTTY: And I was gonna get back to that. Temper tantrums, those are what people see and when people think of brat, that’s what they think. That’s what they see every brat to be. Is the brat that is laying down on the ground, kicking and screaming because they didn’t get a toy, in the middle of the supermarket or in the middle of Wallmart. Or if not on the ground screaming, screaming and kicking, ‘but I wanted a toy! You didn’t get me it!’ so loud that nobody can actually have any kind of peace and quiet in the whole entire store. You can hear it from the back of the store all the way up to outside on the sidewalk. And to me, tantrums would be something that would need to be done in private. I mean, if you really are having such a stressful and hard day and you really just hit your limit, to me that would be something I’d wanna do with my Mommy or Daddy, or whoever my caregiver was, in the privacy of my own home. To where I could do whatever I wanted to and whatever repercussions came of it, but I could get it all out, all the emotions out that would cause me to wanna have a tantrum, without humiliating the person I was with in public. Cause, y’know, some people cannot be outed in public.

MAKO: Right. Clearly it’s something that needs to be negotiated - even that you’d have it as a part of your relationship.

SPACEY: Well, and I was gonna say that I could see that kind of interaction being probably more common in the times when the person taking on the younger age is topping and that the person taking on the caregiver is more of the submissive role, right? I can see where that would fit in really well with that kind of relationship. Y’know, ‘I want a pony! And I’m gonna sit here and scream until I get my pony!’

MAKO: Oh right, so that’s bratting as topping. That’s interesting.

SCOTTY: Now a nicer way of putting that would be instead of throwing a tantrum but still being topping from below, where the Little was topping in complete control, would be princess. ‘I’m a little princess, I’m gonna get my pony, I’m gonna get exactly what I want’. If we’ve ever- I know that almost everybody who watches this has probably seen Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. The original-

MAKO: Right. Veruca...

SCOTTY: Veruca Salt. Her song in that movie makes me laugh to this day, it has gotta be the biggest brat song I’ve ever heard in my life. [Spacey laughs] So I would say if you wanted to have a tantrum, that at home or maybe in a play environment where that was allowed. Like if the dungeon was rented out for a Littles party or at a camp-out, a Littles camp-out, as long as it was allowed by the people running it. But that would be definitely one of the things you would definitely want to know the rules of what they were and whether it was allowed and whether it was not allowed and then that, yes, that would definitely have to be negotiated. ‘Cause a tantrum outside of negotiation, I wouldn’t see you do anything but drive the Big away from you.

MAKO: As my friend Miss Jessica would say, ‘not a good idea, my friend’.

SCOTTY: Exactly.

SPACEY: I also wanna come back and talk about something that I put a pin in earlier that you kind of hit on when you talked about groups of people. And sort of, especially groups of Littles getting together. [scotty laughs] So I mean obviously that can be a situation for bratting, maybe even bratting among peers, and I wondered if you had any thoughts about that.

SCOTTY: Well when Littles get together and they start, and I’m telling you I have - if you’re a brat, and I know I am one - I have the uncanny ability, if there’s any other brat anywhere near where you’re at, it’s like a scent goes off, I don’t know. [Mako laughs] It’s like a magnet. We gather together and we realise we have a kindred spirit among us. And then if you thought one brat was bad... [Mako laughs] It just gets to be more and more. And I’ll give an example - I was up on a kinky weekend up in North Carolina and my Mommy was talking to another gentleman who was a Daddy. And so me and the other two siblings were outside, sitting and talking and getting some fresh air. Well they got busy talking about whatever adults wanna talk about -

SPACEY: Who cares about that stuff.

SCOTTY: - and left the three of us alone. So we decided that it was warm and that the hotel had a pool.

SPACEY: These are a good combination.

SCOTTY: We decide that we should go swimming. Now we knew if we asked either my Mommy or their Daddy, it was gonna be ‘no’. So of course we didn’t ask either one of them. and then we started thinking that none of us had swimming trunks either with us at all, or they were back in the room which would get us caught. So we decided that we were just gonna go skinny dipping.

SPACEY: Uh oh.

MAKO: [laughs] Wow, you don’t mess around when you’re going for the upper-level bad behaviour.

SCOTTY: No, so we got about half way to the pool before they caught up with us because it got quiet to them [laughter] and as any Bigs or Adults who may be listening to this, when you know it goes quiet, you know your brat is about to do something. [M laughs]. And it’s probably in your better interests to try to cut him off or her off at the path before it escalates into something gone wrong. [laughs]

SPACEY: Silence is the indicator.

MAKO: That’s right.

SCOTTY: So we got corralled and they took us back to one of the rooms which was later to be the play space – and needless to say there was four corners and only one corner was not occupied for the next 20 minutes. [laughter]

SPACEY: If only there were 4 of you.

SCOTTY: [laughs] Then we’d be called the 4 horsemen. [Mako laughs]

SPACEY: So let’s bring this back around to some more of the questions that we had – and Mako, do you wanna take the next one?

MAKO: Sure. So another of our listeners – I think this was the anonymous one, right?

SPACEY: It is, yes.

MAKO: Asked, anonymously, they said their problem is they’re just too nice to be a brat. What is it you can do to spice up your bratting without actually making your caretaker mad but still make it clear that you need some attention?

SCOTTY: Well first of all, you got to really know who you’re bratting to do this. But I always call this harmless bratting. ‘Cause my mommy who’s not much older than me in real life, but still older by any means – so one year older gives you grounds to do this – is the old jokes. The old jokes are easy. When they say something like, y’know, ‘back in my time...’ ‘Well back in your time, they didn’t even have automobiles. Didn’t you have to hitch the horse up to go in and get groceries?’

SPACEY: You didn’t go for the dinosaur joke there. I’m very, very impressed by your restraint.

MAKO: I love the dinosaur jokes.

SCOTTY: Someone... Just a side-note - there’s a fetish on fetlife that says, ‘’Rawr!’ is I love you in dinosaur’. And I added it ‘cause I thought it was so cute. But little jokes like that, maybe Momma jokes if the person doesn’t have a problem with it. I mean, like I said, you gotta know... if they really do feel older than they are, then calling them old is not gonna work. But I have said stuff like ‘you’re so ugly, you fell off the ugly tree and every branch hit you on the way down’.

SPACEY: You better know your person before you say that one.

MAKO: Yeah, that sounds pretty dangerous.

SCOTTY: You really do, but you can brat gently but still get the effects. I always have to go back to stories ‘cause they give- the best example was we were at- I was at SOS spanking party one night. And I had got one of the female Dommes to agree to play with me, to spank me before the night was over. Well it was crowded and she was sitting right before you turned in the hallway to go to the bathroom. Well of course, I could easily walk around her with no problem. But when I got up to her I just kinda leaned my leg into where I was gently pushing on her and went, ‘‘scuse me, pardon me, so sorry, my bad’. And she goes ‘oh, you’re gonna get it later’. Well I went in and used the restroom and came back out and of course you know what’s coming, is on the way back through, is I pushed on her a little bit again and said, ‘oh sorry, sorry, ‘scuse me, you’re still in the way again’. And she jumped up and said, ‘that’s it. Come with me’. And she grabbed my arm and we pulled me to the backroom where one of the spanking benches was. Of course there were people playing so my response was, ‘oops, sorry! This is already taken! I guess there’s nothing you can do!’ Well then she walks me back and one of the other Littles that was there that night said, ‘don’t you know you shouldn’t poke the bear?’ Now you know what’s coming from me. Poke! [laughter]

So she pulled me into a room that had a bed and pretty much threw me over a bed and started spanking on me. And of course I started saying one of the classic bratting things is, ‘is that- have you started? Is that a spanking?’ and I kept on and on with those comments and she stripped me bare which did oh so many wonderful things to my head. And I was having the time of my life and she kept on and on. And then eventually I was, ‘okay, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, sorry! I’ll be good, I’ll behave’ and exactly the kind of thing that popped in my head in two seconds. She was happy with it, she had a good time, she wasn’t upset with it. Everybody at the party was laughing about it. And see, that’s kind of fun bratting and I just used- just pushing a little bit but not in the point where that was in a hurtful way.

MAKO: Y’know, I’ve got a good example too of one. A friend of mine just taught me- a fellow camper, her name’s Moxie [?]. She plays this with her Daddy. It’s a game – I just learnt about this like two days ago, and I think it’s really brilliant. It’s a game called ‘hi, yes, no’. And the great thing about this is that your Big doesn’t even have to wanna play with you and you can play this game. And the way it works is you say to your Big: ‘Hi... Yes... No... Hi? Hi? No? Yes?’ and they can respond to you or not respond to you as much as you want and you can just keep on going. The thing she told me, the way that the game ends without it being like a bad beating, is if her Big- if her Daddy says to her, ‘I love you,’ then that’s the end of the game. Which I think is a nice, safe way for you to brat up and get attention-

SPACEY: Is that like a Big safe word for a bratting scene?

MAKO: Yeah, I think it is! I think it is. I immediately heard about this and thought it was great and on the way home in the car tried to play it with Kacie. But she was gonna have no part of it, so she just ignored me. And I was like, ‘are you gonna just ignore me?’ And her answer was... ...

SCOTTY: Yes.

SPACEY: Crickets, crickets.

MAKO: That’s pretty much the answer. [laughs]

SPACEY: And by the way – I should, at this point point out, ‘cause I’m a switch and I like to top too, and I have dealt with some bratty folks. I don’t really like brats either. I can tolerate them better than Mommy does. But I know the way to deal with a brat.

MAKO: What is it?

[silence]

MAKO: That’s it, right? [laughs]

SPACEY: What the brat wants least of anything in the world is to not get any attention.

SCOTTY: Exactly. And I said it earlier and I will say it again. You can punish a brat by putting them in time out. And you can also punish ‘em by basically timing yourself out - by not responding whatsoever to the person. One of the things I saw, and it was a child psychiatry thing, where for the little kid, and the Mom put her hands over her face so the kid could not see her eyes. And it just – that kid acted like he was having the worst beating of his life. And all the Mom was doing was stopping eye contact from happening. That’s all it was.

MAKO: Y’know, I do wanna talk about some things related to that that I think are pretty important. I know that for me as a Little, there is one thing – well there are two things, I’ll go in order - that to me are like kryptonite and poison or terrible. And like, you know that thing I’m always saying to brother about the cake and the icing?

SPACEY: [sarcastically] You never talk about the cake and the icing.

MAKO: That’s right. See episodes 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and the past 38 years of my life. I think that these things can start out as an icing thing but if left unchecked can actually be a really bad cake thing so you have to be careful with them. One is ignoring your Little.

SPACEY: Right. Especially for someone who’s triggered by that.

MAKO: Right. I have abandonment issues. And someone that I was in service to, a previous partner of mine, Ms Lemon, used to like to ground me in my own apartment when she herself wasn’t there. And that... didn’t go well. It made me feel really bad and we wound up having a big talk about it because it really tweaked my abandonment issues. I think that within context, in a limited way, I think some ignoring is okay, some grounding is okay. But I know that like – and that’s one of the adult cake discussions that I had to sort of be my own advocate and Big and say, ‘no Aunt Lemon, we need to talk about that because it hurts me deep down inside’. And then the other one – and I can already predict you’re both going to wince when I even say the word - is the word ‘disappointment’.

SPACEY: Mhm, yeah. Eurgh. I would have a really tough time if my Mommy told me she’s disappointed in me.

MAKO: Yeah. [theatrical shiver noise]

SCOTTY: I would like to come back to the first thing you said. And I wanted to mention that about dealing with brats from the caretaker’s point of view and also from the brat’s point of view on this: is that you cannot have too many discussions on where and what you need to be. Of what kind of brat- like for me, I will never let anyone wash my mouth out with soap. I consider it a chemical and I don’t put chemicals in my mouth, ever. And being slapped in the face, I don’t mind being slapped in the back of the head, but you slap me in the face and I will almost punch somebody at that point. Even if I care-

MAKO: That’s a little triggery for me too.

SCOTTY: But – and for the caretakers, if your brat does something that is just something that it’s just something you cannot handle, once you calm down- cause you never discipline a kid when you’re angry. Once you calm-

SPACEY: It depends on the scene. [laughs]

SCOTTY: Well your playing is playing. But if it’s something serious that triggers something to you - ‘cause Bigs and Daddies and Mommies, for all you kids out there, have just as many triggers as we kids do.

SPACEY: A very important point.

SCOTTY: Is if they sit you down and tell you, ‘this cannot happen again’, remember if you do it just cause you decide you wanna be a brat, they may leave you for a set period of time, or they might leave you for good. Which in my opinion, I never want that to happen – that’s a pain you don’t want to deal with. Because your heart will break over it.

MAKO: I think that it gets back to that point that we’re not children, we’re adults. We act in child-like ways. But in the end, every person that’s an age player is ultimately responsible for themselves. You are your own Big and responsible for your welfare. I hear age players say to me sometimes, ‘well I’m Little, so I’m not responsible for what I do’. And there’s a term we have for that on the Big Little Podcast – are you ready? ‘Bullshit’, that’s the term. You get what you earn. So if you don’t treat- if you don’t nurture your partner’s cake and you pour icing over theirs in a way they don’t like, you’re gonna get what you earn.

SCOTTY: Just remember there was always consequences. When you were a real kid, there was consequences. And not all of them- as I quote Daffy Duck, ‘consequences shmonsequences, as long as I’m rich, who cares’. But then he got zapped by the genie and became, like, 2 inches tall. There are always consequences, there were always- if not your parents, a neighbour, a teacher, somebody. The cops. If you got past every one of those, the cops lock you up as a delinquent. There was consequences. ‘Cause you just couldn’t go throw a rock at somebody’s window and break their window and no consequences ever happen. And so when an adult who says they’re in Little mode, that there’s no consequences, there always are.

MAKO: I think that’s maybe the finite line for the difference between being a brat and a jerk. A brat is playfully mischievous; a jerk doesn’t care about their partner.

SCOTTY: And some of the brats do go too far. There’s stuff on fetlife – there’s a brat group and I laugh at about 2/3rds of the stuff they put on there. But every once in a while, there’s something that I see on there and I go ‘oh, woah, woah... that’s not a positive brat thing.’ But on the positive thing, the one I read today that just cracked me up was – her Daddy said, ‘I can’t spell anything today’. And of course, she went, ‘t-o-d-a-y’.

MAKO: [laughs] That’s pretty funny.

SCOTTY: And to whoever that is, I give you full credit. I won’t mention your name, but that made me laugh so hard today and it was so much fun.

SPACEY: Yay!

MAKO: [laughs] That’s fantastic.

SPACEY: So I wanna make sure we get to all the questions that folks ask and so we’ll wrap this up with Hannah, who’s a good friend of ours and you actually know her from the Littles munch.

SCOTTY: I know Hannah, I love Hannah to death.

SPACEY: Yeah, she’s pretty awesome.

SCOTTY: I miss you Hannah!

MAKO: Hi, Hannah.

SPACEY: And she had 3 questions but we’ve sort of talked about the last one – actually, to some extent we’ve talked about all of these, but it would be nice to put a bow on two of these for her at least. One is, ‘what do you enjoy most about bratting?’ and then the other is, ‘what are some of your favourite techniques for bratting’. So what do you enjoy most?’

SCOTTY: Well I enjoy just being a brat. I do love the attention – ‘cause I’ll be the first to admit. I’m an attention whore. [laughter] My name’s Scotty and I am an attention whore, and I am a brat.

MAKO: Hi, Scotty. [laughter]

SCOTTY: Exactly. And not only the attention but the interaction – and especially if it’s bratting in a scene or bratting to where a scene evolves into a spanking and being forgiven, and especially with people who are near and dear to me. Uncles, aunts and stuff like that. Then it’s just a very fun thing. And I feel better as a person the next day and I got all the attention I wanted. But I do wanna touch on one little thing about getting the attention. I always mention being spanked and having a good time like that, but some brats just want to have their Daddy give them a bath and read them a bedtime story and tuck them in and that’s the attention they’re looking for.

SPACEY: And there are other types of punishment. Maybe it’s early bed time, maybe it’s corner time, maybe it’s corporal snuggling like we like to do with our cat who hates to be snuggled.

MAKO: Right. I heard of this punishment – and this actually was from some childcare website, but it struck me as really kind of a cool thing to do for age players, called ‘tomato staking’? Do you know what that is?

SPACEY: [laughs] No...!

MAKO: [laughs] No, it’s not as bad as it sounds! [laughs] there’s no actual wood or blood involved! What tomato staking is, is when your Little is acting in a way that’s bratty and attention demanding, you make them stay in reach of you so that you can touch them. They can’t leave the room, they can’t be out of your eyesight - they have to be where you put them and do what you tell them. Not like you’re yelling at them and scolding at them. But it’s, ‘clearly you’re not grown up enough that I can trust you in another room so you need to stay here where I can see you’. And I think that’s kind of loving and cloying at the same time? A tiny bit claustrophobic, but in a good way?

SPACEY: I can see that.

SCOTTY: I do as well. Cause there’s a lot of times where you’re wanting the attention and you’re in Little mode. It’s like, ‘look at the picture I drew you! Are you gonna put it on the refrigerator?’ ‘Of course, sweetie, I’m gonna put it on the refrigerator’. I’ve coloured for people and had them put it on the refrigerator – it’s one of my fun things to do. Sometimes– I didn’t touch it, I’m just gonna take this little half-step back and we’ll try this real fast and we’ll run out of time. Maybe if bratting is not getting you where you want, like you’re not getting the responses you want from your Big, is maybe instead of being a brat, especially if something’s really bugging you, is A, either sit down and talk with them and just be honest with them. And tell them what you’re feeling. And if you can’t tell them what you’re feeling, maybe if you could tell them what you need for them to do to help you, whether it’s cuddling or spanking or whatever. Y’know, that’s a good thing. And if you can’t do that - ‘cause I know it’s so hard sometimes to say it, you can feel it, you can hear it in your head, but to say it is like, you just can’t do it. It’s like, stuck there. Is write it down. ‘Dear Daddy, Dear Mommy’ – leave an envelope out or a little note addressed to them, or send them an email or instant message them, any way to get across what your needs are. Because if they know what your needs are, and we’re all different on every day, it helps them. And then you can still brat but sometimes– and that’s the thing to know as an adult, is that bratting is not the solution to everything. Bratting is fun and it’s a blast and I never wanna give it up. But there are just sometimes where there’s better ways of going about getting what you need or making yourself healthier than being a brat.

SPACEY: Absolutely, absolutely.

MAKO: Oh, that’s great advice.

SPACEY: And I think you have to remember communication is always key, even in these relationships where communication sometimes seems so hard.

SCOTTY: And my favourite technique for bratting of course is always the age jokes. I’ve gotten so good at ‘em. And of course, it has got me in trouble, ‘cause I was with Mommy in a school scene thing and she mentioned that it was her birthday. ‘Cause this little girl had had her birthday spanking and everything up on stage and she goes, ‘oh by the way, it’s my birthday too’. And everybody turned round and said, ‘oh! How old are you?’ [laughter]

MAKO: Mistake!

SCOTTY: Now I rear back my little head and I say, ‘a hundred and two!’ And at that point it had gone deathly e-f-huttin’ quiet right before I said 102. [laughter] So it’s like echoing through the building. I mean it’s- [echo sound effects:] ‘A hundred and two... a hundred and two... and two...’ [Mako laughs]. Everybody just went [gasps!] Cause here I am and she’s a very dominant – y’know, it’s a Mistress and a Queen of the community and everything. And I said that and I ended up in time out for it. But I did get that- ‘cause where you’re the bottom you get the top spanking, so I did eventually get all 102 [Mako laughs] of those strokes before it was over with.

SPACEY: Oh my goodness.

MAKO: [laughs] That’s hysterical.

SPACEY: So there is one other thing that I wanted to talk about. Because as I mentioned before, like personally I try not to be a brat, at least especially with my Mommy - although I guess I could see that I have some of those moments with other types of people that I play with. But one thing I love, and I think that’s hand in glove with bratting, is I like to instigate. I like to get people in trouble - especially in ways that don’t get me in trouble.

MAKO: [sarcastic] Not that you’ve ever done that to me, brother. Not ever. [Spacey laughs]

SCOTTY: I call that throwing somebody underneath the bus.

SPACEY: Mhm. And it’s sooooo much fun.

SCOTTY: And that is definitely being a brat. Cause sometimes, well especially, like- Spacey and I known each other for a long time. So if Spacey threw me underneath the bus by saying a little bratty thing and causing me to say something and I got spanked for it – well, Spacey knows that I thoroughly enjoyed that. And so he didn’t do anything to hurt me mentally or physically. He just helped me along and we all had a good time. He got to be a little bit of a brat, I got to be a brat... and, y’know, the people we were playing with all appreciated it.

MAKO: It’s like you guys were on the brat volleyball team together, and he like, spiked it up and you served it home. [Spacey laughs]

SCOTTY: And that has got me in trouble more times than I can ever count, is following through from the instigator on whatever they say to do.

MAKO: I’ve seen that behaviour before. Missy tells me a lot of stories from her SCONY days about how like a whole group of the schoolgirls would get together and prank some one particular person and then rat everybody out. Which - that’s like triple bratting with extra brat sauce on top of it. Because there’s the bad thing that they did, there’s the fact that they’re narking on each other, right? Then there’s the hold-outs that don’t- that lie. Any which way you spin that, it’s just a recipe for a hot, sore backside.

SCOTTY: And they were all probably looking for a hot, sore backside, which is the fun part about all this stuff! So bratting, especially when it’s like that, where it’s allowed and expected, and you know the person you’re about to brat is not gonna mind, like I said, that is just a win-win situation.

SPACEY: Absolutely. I definitely direct my instigation at people that want to get instigated upon.

MAKO: Most of the time. [laughs]

SPACEY: And it’s not just for people who are looking to get their backside tanned. Maybe it’s somebody who’s looking to end up in a little bondage or be forced to wear a little pink dress that they didn’t want to wear for instance. [Mako laughs]

SCOTTY: And there are lots of different ways to punish somebody. And like, tying them up. There’s – we were talking about the ones for age play, but there are probably more than I could ever think of or say and before this thing ran out of power, about ways of punishing people, so...

MAKO: I know a lot of people that struggle with being okay about diapers are okay with it if it’s a punishment or, like, if they’re bratted into it. Y’know - ‘oh you’re acting like a child, so you need to be in diapers’ which is maybe easier for them than admitting that they actually want to be in them.

SCOTTY: I agree. And it comes to, like, some of the people that get spanked, unlike me that love it and want one every day... They want a spanking but they can’t get themselves to ask for it, but they want it done to them. So the way that they go about doing that is to do something that causes that. So they when they do get tied down for a spanking, or thrown over a lap and get pinned down with their leg and their arm behind them – see now, if they didn’t ask for it, it’s against... Kinda consensual non-consent?

MAKO: Right, they like not liking it.

SPACEY: And you see this all the time in erotic literature, right? It’s always people being forced into something that they didn’t want but suddenly they’re really enjoying it... They never knew they had this proclivity, but somehow they got forced into this situation and it feels good. They’re ‘forced’ with air quotes.

SCOTTY: And they’re such ‘strange new feelings they’ve never felt before’. [laughter]

MAKO: Isn’t it funny how you can ‘feel feelings you’ve never felt before’ over and over and over? [laughter]

SPACEY: That’s the great thing about age play.

SCOTTY: It is. It’s the wonderful thing about the whole lifestyle together, whether it’s age play or whatever, is that you can be whatever or whoever you need to be. And my philosophy on this life is as long as you are what or who you need to be, and you’re not hurting anybody else, then you are just fine and that’s exactly who you need to be.

SPACEY: I think that is a great way to end the show. That is great advice. So Scotty, since you were such an awesome special guest, and we hope maybe we can have you back some time -

SCOTTY: I would be honoured.

SPACEY: Awesome. How can people get in touch with you if they’d like to talk to you?

SCOTTY: I was gonna mention this. I am on- Probably the easiest way is on fetlife, and my fetlife ID is – and I am gonna spell this out. It’s Scooter: scooter071669. And if you have- if you were scared to send a question in and hear it, just send me a question and I’ll answer questions from brats, wannabe brats, Bigs that want advice on how to deal with brats or any question about spanking as well. I mean, I’m very honest and open because I’ve had wonderful peoples teach me and I’d be happy to teach and help in any ways I can. If I don’t know an answer, I’ll tell you I just don’t know an answer.

SPACEY: Alright. And do you wanna pimp your spanking groups one more time?

SCOTTY: I have- I belong to several. One I help run- I help run both of them now, don’t I? [laughter]

[1:25:00]

SPACEY: Busy guy.

SCOTTY: One is Spankers of the South-East, or SoS, and it’s a pansexual spanking group. There are men who spank women, women who spank men and men who spank men and women who spank women. It’s held every other month. And so if you’re interested in that, just send me a line and I’ll talk to you more about it. And then every month on the second Saturday, I host an all-male spanking group with a bunch of guys. And it’s a whole lot of fun. We’re just a bunch of average, run-of-the-mill guys and the nicest people you’ll ever meet. So if you’re interested in that, also send me a message and I’ll tell you more about that as well.

SPACEY: Awesome.

MAKO: Scotty, do you guys have websites for either of those?

SCOTTY: We do not have a website... SoS has a website. I’m just not sure what it is or if it’s even up and functioning. It does have a google group but I’d be... I wouldn’t know the actual address for it.

SPACEY: We’ll see if we can follow up and get the websites into the show notes.

MAKO: That’s why I brought it up.

SPACEY: Alright. If you’d like to get in contact with your podcast hosts over here, there are many ways to get in contact with us, as you’ve probably heard-

MAKO: So many.

SPACEY: -From shows in the past. Easiest way might be via email. You can just write to hosts@biglittlepodcast.com –

MAKO: ‘Cause there’s two of us –

SPACEY: - That’s at biglittlepodcast.com. woohoo! You can contact us via twitter – we’re on the twitters, as it were - At biglittlepdcast. so don’t try to spell out podcast ‘cause that’s too many letters for twitter to handle.

MAKO: That’s right.

SPACEY: Really what we’d love to have you do is contact us via the show voicemail. And the reason why we want you to do this is because we’d love to be able to play your comments and questions on the air. And we just find that - you heard me read some of these questions today. And I try to embellish and I try to handle them as well as I can but there’s nothing like having it coming from your own mouth, with your own inflection, your own voice. So-

MAKO: It’s true, and I suck at doing a falsetto.

SPACEY: [laughs] That’s right. “Anna says: [falsetto] ‘what does he enjoy most about bratting?’” Not so great at that.

MAKO: That was him, not me. [laughter] That was worse than mine! But if you do wanna call in, you can call our line - it’s 678-421-4256. But if you do call in, please be sure to let us know if it’s okay to use it on the show.

SCOTTY: Call into the lurve doctor. [laughter]

SPACEY: That’s another show. Maybe another episode. [laughter] And then finally, we both brother and I have a presence on fetlife. We have a group on fetlife called the Big Little Podcast where we post about shows that are upcoming, places where people can ask questions of our guests that we know are coming up, or we have a book group going on now there, right? Right after episode 4, talking to the doctor Gloria Brame, and especially about her book ‘Different Loving’ which has a whole chapter on age play, somebody volunteered right away to lead a book group on different loving. So we’ve got a book group already running on that book. So you may have to get it quickly and by the time this show goes out we’ve probably already started. But we have plenty of things like that on the site.

MAKO: And it’s a big book.

SPACEY: Yeah, on the discussion group. So feel free to join in and have fun and ask us questions and maybe give us ideas for future shows, too. [outro music starts] ‘Cause we’d love that stuff. And then of course, I’m Spacey on fetlife, S-P-A-C-E-Y. And this guy, the shark-boy, is -

MAKO: Mako, M-A-K-O.

SPACEY: That’s pretty easy.

MAKO: Thanks everybody.

SPACEY: Thank you for listening!

[outro music~! ♪♫♪]

[clip from earlier in the show]

Toy noise: Fire! [shooting noises] Fire, fire! [shooting noises!] Fire! [shooting noises] Fire, fire! [shooting noises!] [repeated]